Paladins.

[Rambler]

Me? If it was Aegis Shield back then or our own Aegis Shield any prof could beat the crap out of Aegis Shield user, Aegis in here is overbuffed cause ..... nevermind. Anyway It won't change anything, having a 100mdef will get you in more serious trouble anyway.

Me got beaten or draw against pallies? If they keep spamming GJ's like no tomorrow I guess a draw and still result for me to outdamage, but a loss? Not that I brag but, really, Any prof who would train and practice hard could beat any class. When I still play here I made Gene force only to heal+GJ+gospel and do outdamaged him(dont lie to me Gene!!), Killed the Pally leader of Destined 1vs1(who had the +10 Aegis back then).
And still at the server im playing, Prof is the worst matchup against pallies, not that were god like against them,we can still be defeated but prof has the higher chance.

People a lot look down at Profs, when I was teaching something at Aozora we took a Fully SQI geared Pally as a punching bag, he took the pally out forcing it to only heal+gospel+GJ and died.
So yeah never look down on Profs/Scholars, you might talk crap at them but once a good prof show around...? PEACE GUYS!


Merry New Year and Happy X'mas 

Maybe back in the day before the era of +9001 valk mants and 100+ MDEF builds. But when all your spells do zero and melee attacks get reflected back to you more than 100% there isn't much you can do.

[lugsy]

The only classes that realistically have a chance against a well played paladin are well played Sinx/Champs/Creators, end of story.

._. add Stalker, I'm pretty sure I've beaten all of your listed pally's :<

Well yeah. Even a Clown can get lucky and kills me. If I recall correctly the score was about 20:(1-2) for me. It's true that you can strip me more than once but I can also reequip more than once. And If you would become dangerous to me I'd just make new weapons that would crush you. I'm not saying that you aren't good but you are not a match for me

getting a little cocky aren't we?oO; It's much easy to strip more than once than to reequip more than once. And since you're throwing out theories and stuff; I've done (in a full magic build) spear of ice' that have hit for 10k( stripped target of course), can easily get off 3 in a second.. 30k dps.. I'm pretty sure that > you fighting to reequip ;/.
(I'm not saying it'd hit you for 10k, but it'd be well up there enough )

[aarox]

What can beat them?

any class can beat anyclass you just have to have the right stuff+

[CrueZ]

What can beat them?

any class can beat anyclass you just have to have the right stuff+

Yea =.= and the other guy mustn't have all the right stuff...

It's just like saying "Class X is almost impossible to kill with all the right stuff" right next to "Class X can defeat any class with all the right stuff".

[aarox]

What can beat them?

any class can beat anyclass you just have to have the right stuff+

Yea =.= and the other guy mustn't have all the right stuff...

It's just like saying "Class X is almost impossible to kill with all the right stuff" right next to "Class X can defeat any class with all the right stuff".

nod, thats perfectly correct

[Chellah]

Maybe back in the day before the era of +9001 valk mants and 100+ MDEF builds. But when all your spells do zero and melee attacks get reflected back to you more than 100% there isn't much you can do.

Nothing changed even if there are valks around, Seems to me you really look down on profs that low.

Even with tons of Mdef, a good Prof will just mind break it to half and hit you both melee and magic.If you put too much Mdef you'll loose your reduction against a Melee Crit Prof which can still use magic that badly. Pally buffs? Just Dispell them and all of it is gone. Aegis Reflect? Strip it. and still a lot lot more to it.There are a lot of ways, If you really still look down on prof then be my guess. I can't blame you anyway since all the profs you seen so far just spam WaterBall like no tomorrow.


Anyway, I don't battle out of theory or talk. If what is you believe is ok then it's ok. I just prove myself at PvP 

[Bajorgas]

Okay fine two skills =/ So you can shield boomerang with stauses. I can stack MDEF gears to prevent freezing, there's no point in using reduction gears on long ranged atatck that doesn't do much damage anyways. You can't freeze me, green pots are allowed so no silence, fog makes your SB deal quite bad damage. And I could use indestructable armor to prevent maibreaking. So as I said, Pressure is pretty much the only skill you can use to do decet damage against me. Most pallies don't carry around Blinkers so I could fog you so you couldn't even pressure me thanks to blind. This would allow me to get closer, strip and beat up.

A paladin would have cure which removes blind, so why would they need blinkers?

Edit:Fixed

[lugsy]

Okay fine two skills =/ So you can shield boomerang with stauses. I can stack MDEF gears to prevent freezing, there's no point in using reduction gears on long ranged atatck that doesn't do much damage anyways. You can't freeze me, green pots are allowed so no silence, fog makes your SB deal quite bad damage. And I could use indestructable armor to prevent maibreaking. So as I said, Pressure is pretty much the only skill you can use to do decet damage against me. Most pallies don't carry around Blinkers so I could fog you so you couldn't even pressure me thanks to blind. This would allow me to get closer, strip and beat up.

A paladin would have cure which removes silence, so why would they need blinkers?

1) You can't use cure on yourself when you're Silenced
2) We're talking about blind, not silence o.O;
3) Most pally's Can't be silenced as is.. wtf? oO; xD

[Legault.]

If they can't be silenced, they can't get the blind status.

[Rambler]

Maybe back in the day before the era of +9001 valk mants and 100+ MDEF builds. But when all your spells do zero and melee attacks get reflected back to you more than 100% there isn't much you can do.

Nothing changed even if there are valks around, Seems to me you really look down on profs that low.

Even with tons of Mdef, a good Prof will just mind break it to half and hit you both melee and magic.If you put too much Mdef you'll loose your reduction against a Melee Crit Prof which can still use magic that badly. Pally buffs? Just Dispell them and all of it is gone. Aegis Reflect? Strip it. and still a lot lot more to it.There are a lot of ways, If you really still look down on prof then be my guess. I can't blame you anyway since all the profs you seen so far just spam WaterBall like no tomorrow.


Anyway, I don't battle out of theory or talk. If what is you believe is ok then it's ok. I just prove myself at PvP 

True enough =P I guess there really aren't any good profs atm. It's easy enough to draw with a prof on HP, and I guess I didn't see how a paladin couldn't if a HP can. (The ability to gospel and knockback, and to actually do damage and mailbreaker is such a big boost)

edit: on a side note, what's with all the talk about shield stripping. What decent player honestly gets their shield stripped nowadays when it's so easy to /bm back and forth between a two-handed swap and your standard set-up whenever the prof fogs on you or starts running up. Sure you can capitalize when their shields off but that means you are sitting within attack range. Still, anyone who loses their maya valk to strip needz maor practice ;<

[Man Of Emperium]

@Aozora, Shield Charge is melee, not a ranged attack. You also say that you would melee a Paladin who stacks Mdef, but didn't you say yourself that you would neutralize your skills via Web and staying 9 Cells away? If you get that close, it's a whole other ballgame. You're more likely to be blinded by Holy Cross than the Paladin is by WoF considering our Vit comparisons.

@Chellah, I've always heard that Mind Breaker only reduces your Int Mdef, not your base Mdef from equipment. I know that it didn't make a noticeable damage difference when it was used on me successfully in PvP. Thresher is probably one of the only Paladins on the server with a Maya Aegis, meaning he wouldn't need to swap to dish out damage while nerfing the Prof's damage.

[Thresher]

I've read a few pages. I can win like at least 90% of prof duels without GJ. I run 94 Base int and my SP recovery is fast enough that it allows me to Heal and use some skills frequently and not to mention that it takes quite some time to burn the 1,9 k SP i have. A mele build is a fail vs me since my Valk mant itself grants me 21% reflect with heals over 2.4k. Running 112 Mdef grants me magic immunity and the ability to heal at the same time. Frostblades and Eztranghero are one of the best profs active in PvP lately and I can't recall having any big problems with them unless I played without my Maya Aegis which was just for more fun.

About the Peco. Depends on the build and the person I guess. With the Holly Cross/Shield Chain build It would be really unwise to use it since you already have to sacrifice some skill points on defensive aura skills and Pressure (It's useful only up to lyl 2 anyway in 1 vs 1 duels since the long delay can cause you unwanted problems). And since the only classes that I have problems with force me into using Defender I don't use a Peco. And if an opponent runs away I can always heal up to full HP so it's not really like I'd have to rush towards them like LKs since they usually don't use Heal.

And about Biochemists. Can't really say that I have too big problems with them. I reduce my Vit to about 66 while fighting Bios (with removing certain equips and not due to a restat) and a 2.4-2.5k heal I can mostly out heal them even if they swap to a different weapon. With djinn they hit 180ish per hit (1800 per AD) at most but even if their AD damage raises to 3000 per AD they loose IC and therefore the cast rate of my Heal becomes faster than those of AD.

For IP/CK. Well a really good sinX might have a chance if I don't use Tao at the beginning. They usually can't get my HP below 10k if I start with Tao and continue with Poison/GR swaps at 30k HP (and for this I don't even start to heal myself)

To be honest It's next to impossible to kill a pally if he can use GJ.
I won't comment how the outcome may be without GJ since really only a handful of players agreed with me on a non GJ duel. I can only say that Snipers have good chances and I used every status armor/weapon that I could get including stun, silence and sleep. It's like whoever makes the first mistake looses. If they burn your SP you are dead since defender only gives you a bit more time. And on the other side. If you land a good SC they are nearly dead.
And please don't come with "How can a pally loose to a Sniper? wth!?" If you haven't dueled Miracle or Zeto without GJ just STFU. They knew how to get near immune to status effects.

You probably haven't read all of the "wall of text" but just ask me for a Duel if you see me in PvP. Tough I'm a bit nonactive in PvP atm because of the Niff Christmas even

[A.D.DFreak]

Its funny...almost every game i run into has this kinda problem.......

Warriors who have Heal is close to unstoppable...... WARRIORS AREN"T SUPPOSE TO HAVE THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE, WARRIORS ARE SUPPOSE TO BEAT THE SHET OUTTA THINGS!!!XD

[ShinigamiSama]

I hate threads like these because 90% of the input is theory involved in Theory you always win, or the one you would think would win would.

The factors to consider are too many. So my suggestion would be

Fight them, learn, rinse repeat.

Play more, get better.

[Thresher]

Its funny...almost every game i run into has this kinda problem.......

Warriors who have Heal is close to unstoppable...... WARRIORS AREN"T SUPPOSE TO HAVE THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE, WARRIORS ARE SUPPOSE TO BEAT THE SHET OUTTA THINGS!!!XD

The problem isn't that Paladins have heal. I mean what could we do without it? Shield Chain our opponents to death? There's almost no way that a pally can out damage another class played by a top tier player. You can easily reduce Shield Chains damage to like 10-15 times less than it's original damage. And holly cross isn't too strong even with 190 str (doing about 350 per strike, 700 all together on a character with toad and good defense and even less on players with really high defense).

It's near impossible for me to kill a Top tier Champ unless the reflected asura kills him, but that doesn't stop me from trying and improving. Champ duels are boring anyway, all they do is spam Asura. It was fun only against Tori no Uta and there is currently no sight of a Champ with powers comparable to his.

Fight them, learn, rinse repeat.

Play more, get better.

You should try that. Can work wonders