Paladins.

[Aozora]

I know that Pallies aren't jsut one skill wonders, but what the point is that if I web you, your whole offensive potential will be reduced to one single skill, Pressure.
Shield boomerang does not do any sort of considerable damage if I'm wearing reduction gears, freezing will be hard since as an INT based class my MDEF will usually be quite high so freezing will be rare occasion that doesn't last long. If I web you, and put on a fog. You can't shield chain, you can't HC, you can't bash, you can't switch armors to mitigate everything since I can attack you using multiple elements at the same time. In this situation all you can do to hurt me is use pressure.

I'm fully aware of how diverse Paladins can be and how many skills they have in their disposal, but if you prevent them from using all those other skills in any way that would actually help them to defeat their opponent, then even Paladins are reduced to one skill wonders.

[Man Of Emperium]

Addressing the post on the previous page, I don't believe that a skill like Soul Burn with a 15 second downtime between the next cast will help you dictate the SP flow of a battle significantly.

Also, your INT doesn't play a large part in your Freeze resistance, if even at all - the main factor is your base Mdef.

In order to reduce the Paladin's entire arsenal to Pressure, you'll have to address a wide variety of skills by executing WoF + Web + Safety Wall. Not allowing Web to run out means refreshing it every 4 seconds or so that it lasts, and that means you'll lose out on a lot of your offensive ability since there's definitely going to be an issue with after-cast delay. The Paladin can hide clip to delay you further by forcing you to sight. On top of that, you'll have to deal with any status effects the Paladin throws your way, whether via weapon or armor. Plus, there's always the chance that the Paladin will take the duel seriously and specialize a particular build, possibly even skilling GC.

I agree that a top tier Prof can beat a top tier Paladin. However, I believe the matchup is biased towards the Paladin.

[.:.Cloud.:.]

Hmm, i think everyjob can kill a pally, but it all depends on the equips of both, hmm, i think a Prof hass the advantagf on a paladin, but then again, it depends on his equips, if he as a GTB, well, i think u all know who will win, but, i am a lil bored with Pallys, so thats why i am changing to Pally to Wizz, i am sellin all of my pally equips, u can go to my shop, its in my sig... 

[Cherry 14]

Umm why do we care just to hate the palidens sigh no other class has one this big

[VanDikov]

[Aryia]

With a Tome and a good build, You can achieve about 900-1K crits@ 190 Attackspeed.

Perhaps on a poorly geared player; But with Lexy's old DDT Tome, she would hit my HP 100's; Using endows (Angeling on me) And Autocast, with dual megs.

Prof DPS melee will ALWAYS be pathetic and low, top tier.

I don't think a Proffesor can beat a top tier Paladin o.O

I don't think there's any top tier Paladin's out there; And by that, I mean top-top tier.

I sure hope you're not talking about me. I don't have a DDT dome (I have a DDDrake), I only have 1 meg, I never seriously went into autocast (low job level for my prof), and I never seriously made a good stat build for melee. I don't recall using endows, either. Too lazy to hunt for whatever is needed. I don't know of any other well-geared people who go with that name, but ignore this post if there's another one running around.

[samba]

I know that Pallies aren't jsut one skill wonders, but what the point is that if I web you, your whole offensive potential will be reduced to one single skill, Pressure.
Shield boomerang does not do any sort of considerable damage if I'm wearing reduction gears, freezing will be hard since as an INT based class my MDEF will usually be quite high so freezing will be rare occasion that doesn't last long. If I web you, and put on a fog. You can't shield chain, you can't HC, you can't bash, you can't switch armors to mitigate everything since I can attack you using multiple elements at the same time. In this situation all you can do to hurt me is use pressure.

I'm fully aware of how diverse Paladins can be and how many skills they have in their disposal, but if you prevent them from using all those other skills in any way that would actually help them to defeat their opponent, then even Paladins are reduced to one skill wonders.

You probably look down on Pally|sader or you have never duel a pally that is as variety as pally could be.  I had said many, but you seem to ignore them.  I felt bad to repetively saying the same thing.  If pressure and shield chain is all you think pally has, that is so not true.  It would be benefit for you in knowing pally by dueling who really specified building against Scholars.

Addressing the post on the previous page, I don't believe that a skill like Soul Burn with a 15 second downtime between the next cast will help you dictate the SP flow of a battle significantly.

Also, your INT doesn't play a large part in your Freeze resistance, if even at all - the main factor is your base Mdef.

In order to reduce the Paladin's entire arsenal to Pressure, you'll have to address a wide variety of skills by executing WoF + Web + Safety Wall. Not allowing Web to run out means refreshing it every 4 seconds or so that it lasts, and that means you'll lose out on a lot of your offensive ability since there's definitely going to be an issue with after-cast delay. The Paladin can hide clip to delay you further by forcing you to sight. On top of that, you'll have to deal with any status effects the Paladin throws your way, whether via weapon or armor. Plus, there's always the chance that the Paladin will take the duel seriously and specialize a particular build, possibly even skilling GC.

I agree that a top tier Prof can beat a top tier Paladin. However, I believe the matchup is biased towards the Paladin.

[Aozora]

As I said, those are not the only skills you have. I'm well aware that Pallies have shitloads of effective skills, the point is that they dion't have shitloads of efective long ranged skills. I can keep you webbed from 9 cells. If you tihnk you can do much when you're webbed, burned, dispelled and I'm sitting in a fog then please do tell me.

[Skywalker21]

So true So true

[Man Of Emperium]

As I said, those are not the only skills you have. I'm well aware that Pallies have shitloads of effective skills, the point is that they dion't have shitloads of efective long ranged skills. I can keep you webbed from 9 cells. If you tihnk you can do much when you're webbed, burned, dispelled and I'm sitting in a fog then please do tell me.

I would probably 12 cell Shield Boomerang with status effect and 9 cell 2k spammable Pressure due to no aftercast delay if it misses. Paladin could heal off any damage you can do from 9 cells away, and escape your Web if you maintain long distance combat by waiting it out. Could also Sanctuary and Hide clip and wait for Web to run out as well, forcing you to Sight close up, or wait for you to Status from Shield Boom. Grape juice a few times every Dispel.

Prof's best chance is probably to remain close with Safety Wall and try to Strip while dishing out several types of elemental damage when noticing shield is off. Have to take into account status armor if you melee though, as well as constantly keep Web up when Paladin moves out of LP to Gospel and keep LP up immediately after. That's why it's probably tough. Otherwise, force them to Heal Spam after the Paladin guesses wrong with taking off the shield and make them backpedal by dishing out as much damage as possible, or getting off a lucky Strip, LPing constantly and attacking with ranged magic, hoping they aren't smart enough to Maya.

[Rambler]

Why is MoE so modest =x If you are talking top top tier like MoE/Thresher/Gene the amount of damage a prof can do is a pittance. 112 MDEF, are you going to tickle them with your tome? Any top tier dueler worth a crap will take their shield off if you try to move in for the strip, assuming he doesn't just knock you away. If you think you're going to out attrition a paladin using sp control that's pretty funny, unless you plan on 5 hours of perfect play per duel. (On that same note you'd probably run out of webs before they ran out of GJ) Hopefully during those 9001 hours of dueling  you don't get hit at all, or mailbreaker will break all your armor one by one. Since I doubt you have a valk GR (not that it would be likely a prof would carry a valk GR anyways due to weight issues), I hope your vitata clip can outheal those unmitigated shield chains. Better not status either, since that would take a huge chunk of your HP away.

Having dueled several good profs on HP without GJ, it's safe to say that a prof with vitata can't even heal through crasher switchups for 140 damage. And any prof that actually duels one of the three top top tier paladins on the server is in for a rude awakening. lulz at prof damage. You can reduce spells to single-digit damage easily, and good luck trying to strip a top tier player.

[Seaking]

I know that Pallies aren't jsut one skill wonders, but what the point is that if I web you, your whole offensive potential will be reduced to one single skill, Pressure.
Shield boomerang does not do any sort of considerable damage if I'm wearing reduction gears, freezing will be hard since as an INT based class my MDEF will usually be quite high so freezing will be rare occasion that doesn't last long. If I web you, and put on a fog. You can't shield chain, you can't HC, you can't bash, you can't switch armors to mitigate everything since I can attack you using multiple elements at the same time. In this situation all you can do to hurt me is use pressure.

I'm fully aware of how diverse Paladins can be and how many skills they have in their disposal, but if you prevent them from using all those other skills in any way that would actually help them to defeat their opponent, then even Paladins are reduced to one skill wonders.

Actually, if they are not IC you can Spell Breaker their Pressure, can you not?

[samba]

I know that Pallies aren't jsut one skill wonders, but what the point is that if I web you, your whole offensive potential will be reduced to one single skill, Pressure.
Shield boomerang does not do any sort of considerable damage if I'm wearing reduction gears, freezing will be hard since as an INT based class my MDEF will usually be quite high so freezing will be rare occasion that doesn't last long. If I web you, and put on a fog. You can't shield chain, you can't HC, you can't bash, you can't switch armors to mitigate everything since I can attack you using multiple elements at the same time. In this situation all you can do to hurt me is use pressure.

I'm fully aware of how diverse Paladins can be and how many skills they have in their disposal, but if you prevent them from using all those other skills in any way that would actually help them to defeat their opponent, then even Paladins are reduced to one skill wonders.

Actually, if they are not IC you can Spell Breaker their Pressure, can you not?

There are ways to stop dispell.  As far as i know you cant dispell yourself, this makes status effect going and forcing professors to use effect removal items.  Like Evani said, the weight limit makes professor can only carry so limited stuffs in comparing with pally who have sort of weight capacity.

In some extreme in some cases, I mention that it would end up a draw because professor can use their very last web and run away and log. >.>  That is an advantage from professor that a pally can do when professor does that.  A common strategy of placing webs and walking away isnt as easy as people think too.  cloaking | hiding can also be used.  That would force professor to come for 3 cell near if they want to have a target to aim for it.

I feel bad in continuing the discussion before it gets to "pride and defending reputation" instead of scholarly creditable debates in a meta-game.

Pardon my word choices if you found offensive.

Regards,

Samba

[Aozora]

As I said, those are not the only skills you have. I'm well aware that Pallies have shitloads of effective skills, the point is that they dion't have shitloads of efective long ranged skills. I can keep you webbed from 9 cells. If you tihnk you can do much when you're webbed, burned, dispelled and I'm sitting in a fog then please do tell me.

I would probably 12 cell Shield Boomerang with status effect and 9 cell 2k spammable Pressure due to no aftercast delay if it misses. Paladin could heal off any damage you can do from 9 cells away, and escape your Web if you maintain long distance combat by waiting it out. Could also Sanctuary and Hide clip and wait for Web to run out as well, forcing you to Sight close up, or wait for you to Status from Shield Boom. Grape juice a few times every Dispel.

Prof's best chance is probably to remain close with Safety Wall and try to Strip while dishing out several types of elemental damage when noticing shield is off. Have to take into account status armor if you melee though, as well as constantly keep Web up when Paladin moves out of LP to Gospel and keep LP up immediately after. That's why it's probably tough. Otherwise, force them to Heal Spam after the Paladin guesses wrong with taking off the shield and make them backpedal by dishing out as much damage as possible, or getting off a lucky Strip, LPing constantly and attacking with ranged magic, hoping they aren't smart enough to Maya.

Okay fine two skills =/ So you can shield boomerang with stauses. I can stack MDEF gears to prevent freezing, there's no point in using reduction gears on long ranged atatck that doesn't do much damage anyways. You can't freeze me, green pots are allowed so no silence, fog makes your SB deal quite bad damage. And I could use indestructable armor to prevent maibreaking. So as I said, Pressure is pretty much the only skill you can use to do decet damage against me. Most pallies don't carry around Blinkers so I could fog you so you couldn't even pressure me thanks to blind. This would allow me to get closer, strip and beat up.

But seriously, this whole thread was about who can beat Pallies, Profs can beat pallies. Can we move on to next class -_- I'm getting tired of debating.

Why is MoE so modest =x If you are talking top top tier like MoE/Thresher/Gene the amount of damage a prof can do is a pittance. 112 MDEF, are you going to tickle them with your tome? Any top tier dueler worth a crap will take their shield off if you try to move in for the strip, assuming he doesn't just knock you away. If you think you're going to out attrition a paladin using sp control that's pretty funny, unless you plan on 5 hours of perfect play per duel. (On that same note you'd probably run out of webs before they ran out of GJ) Hopefully during those 9001 hours of dueling  you don't get hit at all, or mailbreaker will break all your armor one by one. Since I doubt you have a valk GR (not that it would be likely a prof would carry a valk GR anyways due to weight issues), I hope your vitata clip can outheal those unmitigated shield chains. Better not status either, since that would take a huge chunk of your HP away.

Having dueled several good profs on HP without GJ, it's safe to say that a prof with vitata can't even heal through crasher switchups for 140 damage. And any prof that actually duels one of the three top top tier paladins on the server is in for a rude awakening. lulz at prof damage. You can reduce spells to single-digit damage easily, and good luck trying to strip a top tier player.

112 MDEF+Neutral and elemental reductions at the same time in case I start to actually melee with dual megs and Valk helm? Good going I must say o.o;
Pally taking his shield off? Now why on earth would he do that and lose most of their damage dealing skills and reduction buffs? A Pally will take shield off only if he absolutely has to. Knock me away with? I'm pretty sure they only have one knockbackskill which is ranged, and thus you're ablo to block it with fog. Besides why would you knock back the Prof? He being close is only good for you since you can shield chain. No I don't plan to use SP control to completely dominate, I plan to use it as a strategy to make it harder for the Paladin to spam his skills since it actually does get harder with low SP.
Why would I actually even care about weight? I can vitata+Health convert all the SP I want or just simply spam GJ like everyone does =/ Without GJ HP's are pretty much theonly ones who'll have a fair shot against Scholars thanks to burn, HP's can use magni and natural SP recovery to get their SP into nice numbers. Most other classes can't.

Several good Profs? I'm pretty sure there aren't really any top tier profs left on this server =/

But seriously, next class please.

[Rambler]

Aozora, your description of a match is so inaccurate it's hilarious. I repeat, a prof cannot beat a top-top tier paladin like MoE/Thresher/Gene in a standard GJ allowed match, EVER. If you would like to prove me wrong go ahead and try. I can even lend you gear. (PS, good luck carrying megs and valk helms on a prof without severely scewing your build, having to ditch brys, or pushing yourself over 90% weight)

The only classes that realistically have a chance against a well played paladin are well played Sinx/Champs/Creators, end of story. Why don't you try coming into pvp on your prof and I can show you how top-end gear will reduce a profs melee and magic into laughable quantities. Extranghero can't beat top tier paladins, Chellah couldn't, and I'm betting you can't either.