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Carding question.

Author Topic: Carding question.  (Read 3014 times)

Pasis

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Carding question.
« on: November 15, 2010, 10:23:22 pm »
So, occasionally I will go around assisting small teams in MvPing, and it is quite necessary that I can take some punishment at times. Especially when facing the newer MvPs.

I need to weigh in what to put this Alice Card in:

+7 Stone Buckler[1] or a +4 Valkyrja Shield[1]. Or a better yet affordable suggestion.

I also have Penomena Cards and an Executioner Card in my possession, so if one has a good idea what I should aim to put it in with, do tell. I might want to put it in that +7 Guard[1] I have, but perhaps some other shield is good too.

Also, it is time I card this +4 Volcano Armor with something (for largely Thor Dungeon, or sometimes Magma Dungeon), and I'm thinking:

Garm Card, or RSX-0806. Or some other suggestion is fine too.

Muranodo

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Re: Carding question.
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2010, 10:42:13 pm »
So, occasionally I will go around assisting small teams in MvPing, and it is quite necessary that I can take some punishment at times. Especially when facing the newer MvPs.

I need to weigh in what to put this Alice Card in:

+7 Stone Buckler[1] or a +4 Valkyrja Shield[1]. Or a better yet affordable suggestion.

I also have Penomena Cards and an Executioner Card in my possession, so if one has a good idea what I should aim to put it in with, do tell. I might want to put it in that +7 Guard[1] I have, but perhaps some other shield is good too.

Also, it is time I card this +4 Volcano Armor with something (for largely Thor Dungeon, or sometimes Magma Dungeon), and I'm thinking:

Garm Card, or RSX-0806. Or some other suggestion is fine too.

Unless you're aiming to use the Magni set (like a SG might) or are/have a Crusader/Paladin/LK/Knight...

I still find a +7 Guard to be sufficient.  

Stone Bucklers have become lately a more popular alternative to a +7 Guard since they're not that hard to farm, so if you intend to farm them you might consider it.
It depends ultimately on if those bonuses will be that useful to you.  I wouldn't advise a Valk Shield just due to it being a very potentially hard resale down the line.
I purchased my +7 Stone Bucklers because I intended to keep them on hand for my paladin for situations where tanking with a Toad Aegis wouldn't be desirable.

I personally use my Executioner card in an +8 Guard, and it works relatively well.  When I did bother using a Penomena card, it was also in a Guard.  It was +5 at the time before I sold it.  I had originally purchased it for Ice Dungeon / Thor usage, but I found an Executioner would work just find in Ice Dungeon, and I opted for an Alice in Thors, so I saw no reason to keep it.

At present, I mostly swap between a +7 Tirfing Guard, +8 Executioner Guard, +7 Hodremlin Stone Buckler, +7 Alice Stone Buckler, and a +4 GTB guard based off whatever purpose I have in PvM.  And it all works relatively well.  You mentioned assisting small teams and potentially taking punishment.  I've done such during BB parties with said gears, and I've survived fairly well even when taking some damage.  So I don't think you'd need to necessarily go too expensive with your purchases there.

Fire Garm or Tao Gunka were fairly typical for Thors dungeon as I recall.  RSX-0806 would only really be advisable if you intend to seriously farm Magma Dungeon, in my opinion.  The pushback isn't that bad, but it is a bit annoying.  :x I personally just did fine with a +5 Pasana Glit in both cases myself.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 10:54:54 pm by Muranodo »

Ren Ren

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Re: Carding question.
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2010, 11:16:14 pm »
I'm using a +4 Alice stone buckler atm. It works well for tanking mvps since most mvps are large and stone buck gives 5% reduction from large monster. Works well for thor too. So IMO, Alice stone buck > Alice valk and it's cheaper too.

When carding a volcano armor[1], it depends on what and where you play the most. RSX fire is good for WS but it doesn't work for aco class and I think Garm fire is not really necessary for thor or magma. But everything depends on what you're playing. I just use +7 Silk robe for both dungeons on my HP. Cheaper and gotta love the mdef since kasa and friend likes to fireball me xD

So basically what I'm saying is it all depends on what you play the most. Garm fire for universal or just some little silk robe for HP (assuming you play HP most of the time D;).


Pasis

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Re: Carding question.
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2010, 11:32:08 pm »
So, occasionally I will go around assisting small teams in MvPing, and it is quite necessary that I can take some punishment at times. Especially when facing the newer MvPs.

I need to weigh in what to put this Alice Card in:

+7 Stone Buckler[1] or a +4 Valkyrja Shield[1]. Or a better yet affordable suggestion.

I also have Penomena Cards and an Executioner Card in my possession, so if one has a good idea what I should aim to put it in with, do tell. I might want to put it in that +7 Guard[1] I have, but perhaps some other shield is good too.

Also, it is time I card this +4 Volcano Armor with something (for largely Thor Dungeon, or sometimes Magma Dungeon), and I'm thinking:

Garm Card, or RSX-0806. Or some other suggestion is fine too.

Unless you're aiming to use the Magni set (like a SG might) or are/have a Crusader/Paladin/LK/Knight...

I still find a +7 Guard to be sufficient.  

Stone Bucklers have become lately a more popular alternative to a +7 Guard since they're not that hard to farm, so if you intend to farm them you might consider it.
It depends ultimately on if those bonuses will be that useful to you.  I wouldn't advise a Valk Shield just due to it being a very potentially hard resale down the line.
I purchased my +7 Stone Bucklers because I intended to keep them on hand for my paladin for situations where tanking with a Toad Aegis wouldn't be desirable.

I personally use my Executioner card in an +8 Guard, and it works relatively well.  When I did bother using a Penomena card, it was also in a Guard.  It was +5 at the time before I sold it.  I had originally purchased it for Ice Dungeon / Thor usage, but I found an Executioner would work just find in Ice Dungeon, and I opted for an Alice in Thors, so I saw no reason to keep it.

At present, I mostly swap between a +7 Tirfing Guard, +8 Executioner Guard, +7 Hodremlin Stone Buckler, +7 Alice Stone Buckler, and a +4 GTB guard based off whatever purpose I have in PvM.  And it all works relatively well.  You mentioned assisting small teams and potentially taking punishment.  I've done such during BB parties with said gears, and I've survived fairly well even when taking some damage.  So I don't think you'd need to necessarily go too expensive with your purchases there.

Fire Garm or Tao Gunka were fairly typical for Thors dungeon as I recall.  RSX-0806 would only really be advisable if you intend to seriously farm Magma Dungeon, in my opinion.  The pushback isn't that bad, but it is a bit annoying.  :x I personally just did fine with a +5 Pasana Glit in both cases myself.

Oh, I see.

Resaling and class issues aside, would an Alice Valkyrja Shield be better anyways? I rarely resell my items.

Well, I was thinking using a Penomena in areas such as Juperos. On the other hand, Executioner as well as Penomena (since Ice Titans and Snowiers are apparently Formless) may also be useful in Ice Dungeon. But would a Penomena +7 Stone Buckler be fine too, on the account that both these creatures are also Large? It sounds a little uneconomically viable to waste it on a small portion of the monster populace, though. But lets just say for overall defensive sake. How would it be then?

I'm using a +4 Alice stone buckler atm. It works well for tanking mvps since most mvps are large and stone buck gives 5% reduction from large monster. Works well for thor too. So IMO, Alice stone buck > Alice valk and it's cheaper too.

When carding a volcano armor[1], it depends on what and where you play the most. RSX fire is good for WS but it doesn't work for aco class and I think Garm fire is not really necessary for thor or magma. But everything depends on what you're playing. I just use +7 Silk robe for both dungeons on my HP. Cheaper and gotta love the mdef since kasa and friend likes to fireball me xD

So basically what I'm saying is it all depends on what you play the most. Garm fire for universal or just some little silk robe for HP (assuming you play HP most of the time D;).



Well, I do indeed have an unused +7 Silk Robe[1] and a Pasana at hand. /heh

I may put it to good use. Though I'm just a little wary of bastards like Guardians, however small the encounters are at times. Then again, with the Alice, a lot of of the damage is placed elsewhere.

I always play either two things - High Priest, or a Magic class. And I play High Priest more. So your suggestion is plausible.

Muranodo

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Re: Carding question.
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2010, 12:04:33 am »
Oh, I see.

Resaling and class issues aside, would an Alice Valkyrja Shield be better anyways? I rarely resell my items.

Well, I was thinking using a Penomena in areas such as Juperos. On the other hand, Executioner as well as Penomena (since Ice Titans and Snowiers are apparently Formless) may also be useful in Ice Dungeon. But would a Penomena +7 Stone Buckler be fine too, on the account that both these creatures are also Large? It sounds a little uneconomically viable to waste it on a small portion of the monster populace, though. But lets just say for overall defensive sake. How would it be then?

That's one of those it all depends on the situation.

Valkyrja Shields are very desirable WoE shields due to the MDEF they provide and the elemental reductions as they're the main types used in WoE with water/fire elemental SQIs, Nib, cursed water, etc). It gives +5 MDEF, so it works well with the Maya card.  And it also works well for Toad, so you don't completely lose all the MDEF on the shield slot while protecting yourself.

So while they may seem like one of the best shields, they are for the above purpose, but it doesn't make them as good in PvM.  As of right now, Stone Bucklers really are the best for that right now.  They've become popular fast, and you're seeing less slotted Guards/Bucklers now even though they're still sufficient. Even if you don't have a swordsman type, if nothing else, you get the reduction in damage against large monsters, and you almost always run into some type of large monster on any higher level monster maps.

I wasn't sure what class you were playing, but my guess was HP and/or caster based off my general impression of you; it appeared astute as indicated by your reply below.  The MDEF will help a little, but you'll already have plenty of your own as either a HP / caster type from stating INT.  So that leaves the Add a 20% resistance against Water, Fire, Shadow and Undead Property.  

And what I say from here comes from personal experience.  I made a few +4 Valk Shields on Ratemyserver's test server to try them out against MvPs and the like.  I felt like I preferred the greater defense overall because Fire Property was ultimately the main one I really found use for in general PvM play.  Water was not really at all. Shadow some.  Undead not really at all again.  I'd personally preferred the extra defense in the end.  I could see it being desirable in WoE, but I wouldn't personally use them as tanking shields.

I'd strongly advise you give it a go on the test server if you're still wavering here.  Even though they don't have SQIs on the test server (obviously), you can still modify your stats to simulate like you have them on and basically recreate your character anyway and try whatever situation you want.

I'd advise an Alice Stone Buckler in the end for the extra damage reduction against large enemies since some of the MvPs that can be annoying are large.  A guard would still be sufficient, but the little bonus is still nice. From there, smart swapping whether with a GTB (for Earthquake) or with Ghostring armors/elemental armors (or at least an angeling / bathory set) will still reduce those pesky elemental / neutral damage hurt skills even without a Valk Shield.  Even if you don't resell your items I personally don't think the +4 Valk Shield would be worth it as such.

If you were to plan on doing Juperos a lot I might advise getting a Penomena, but I'd say only for that.  You could potentially use it with Ice Dungeon as well, but the monsters in Ice Dungeon aren't that bad by themselves.  You could tank them without much effort just fine on a HP since the large monsters don't attack at a high ASPD rate (unlike the Gazetis); the other caster classes can take blows here and there as long as it's not continuous with energy coat on. Caster classes primarily only really bother with Ice Dungeon; they really don't have much trouble there.  I only used a Tirfing for most of my time there. And my frail wizard / sage / soul linkers from when I started earlier on would do okay.  I tried an Executioner eventually, and it worked nicely though against the Snowiers/Ice Titans.  But I don't see 5% more damage reduction or 10% more with a Stone Buckler being all that necessary.

The only real annoyance there is the Gazetis, and they're demon/medium.

So you could get a +7 Penomena Stone Buckler and use it in both places; it'd be nice to get the racial + the reduction from them being large monsters together.  But that's just there.  In Juperos you'd mostly be getting the equivalent of a Penomena card in a +7 Guard except against Apocalypses.

However, it's one of those you realize Ice Dungeon's experience isn't that great, and they don't hurt that much.  So in the end I went with an Executioner over a Penomena in the end because it would work against Anubis as well since Sphinx 4/5 provided more useful experience.

I personally never advise racials anymore unless you're going to continually spend a great deal of time on that map, or they hurt at a relatively fast rate (like the dragons in Abyss).
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 12:27:35 am by Muranodo »

Pasis

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Re: Carding question.
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2010, 12:23:42 am »
I'll consider getting a GTB somewhere in time.

At the moment Alice and Ghostring will just have to do versus Earthquake.

...

Okay, I'll try to make do on these suggestions. I'm just focussing to get a big and specialized shield set rather than a versatile set, so it is not necessary to pay attention on economical viability. Just looking for the right shields.

Thank you very  much.

ExodusLight

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Re: Carding question.
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2010, 12:32:55 am »
Eh, HP?
You should try to get a Diabolus Robe, it's great for HP's ; ;

Muranodo

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Re: Carding question.
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2010, 12:33:12 am »
I'll consider getting a GTB somewhere in time.

At the moment Alice and Ghostring will just have to do versus Earthquake.

...

Okay, I'll try to make do on these suggestions. I'm just focussing to get a big and specialized shield set rather than a versatile set, so it is not necessary to pay attention on economical viability. Just looking for the right shields.

Thank you very  much.

GTB is by no means necessary. But it can be quite nice when some decide to spam it.

And if the money and practicality seem right then that makes perfect sense.  I'm glad some of the information proved helpful.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 12:35:45 am by Muranodo »

Pasis

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Re: Carding question.
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2010, 12:45:42 am »
Eh, HP?
You should try to get a Diabolus Robe, it's great for HP's ; ;

I would, if a +7 isn't so damn expensive. Even a +4 makes me piss in my pants.

And by that I'd probably just card it with a Garm rather than stuff anything else in it.

Just hoping people would farm that overgrown Jamaican bulldog extensively until it drops to 2-4 million per pop.

ExodusLight

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Re: Carding question.
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2010, 12:49:26 am »
just get a +4.

Pasis

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Re: Carding question.
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2010, 12:55:43 am »
just get a +4.


Your contribution is greatly appreciated.  :D

Please mail to either of the following characters: Pasis, Andorhal Eijin, or Judex.

I can only dish out so much for a wee armor. ._.

ExodusLight

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Re: Carding question.
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2010, 01:03:39 am »
Oh lawl.
Also, regarding the shielding:
I would card them all in +7 Guards.

Pasis

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Re: Carding question.
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2010, 01:07:49 am »
Any reasons as such?

I mean both the not giving me a Diabolus Robe[1] and the Shielding choice.

ExodusLight

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Re: Carding question.
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2010, 01:22:36 am »
I don't farm the giant demon and, those cardings are usually used as swaps, and guards are so much lighter than the other shields.

Pasis

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Re: Carding question.
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2010, 01:28:40 am »
So, if you do farm him, you'll give me one in eventuality? +_+

Also, I'm not really going to lug all of the shields around, I guess. Though there is some point in the weight part.

The weight I'm carrying now is quite heavy as it is. I only wish the weights weren't so influenced by WoE and PvP.