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Print Page - Will new cards be nerfed?

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The 'Other' Section => AnesisRO Archive => Archive => General Questions => Topic started by: Emi on September 18, 2009, 12:44:07 am

Title: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Emi on September 18, 2009, 12:44:07 am
I have an empty evang and am considering making it a tripple drops evang so that i can wear two kiel cards for better support. I think this is a good tradeoff. However, I don't want to if Kiel will be nerfed for HP class. (it would be better to just get white lady)

Does anybody think they will be nerfed? And also, will it be class specific? I think this card opens doors for HP support builds, but may make a certain class super powerful. I hope if it is nerfed it will be for the best. Any GM input?
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: goldmind on September 18, 2009, 01:25:58 am
     They already nerfed it by giving -3 DEX points penalty and 5% less from the original 30% reduce cast cooldown buff. I don't think they'll nerf it twice in a row.
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Emi on September 18, 2009, 01:31:40 am
     They already nerfed it by giving -3 DEX points penalty and 5% less from the original 30% reduce cast cooldown buff. I don't think they'll nerf it twice in a row.
mm good.

I would have to unslot my valkyrie helmet = 9ads card =25 ads and if it gets nerfed it would cost 13 ads to unslot evang again. Needless to say, a lot of money is on the line if I decide to do this. T_________T

I hate being so indecisive. :p
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Avix_Aao~ on September 18, 2009, 01:38:13 am
Talis said on 1 topic that they tried out -15% (with of course the -3 dex they give each) then tried out -20% said wasn't hardly any difference with 2 then tried -25% with 2 and said its just about right so guessing with Kiel card they tested out to the point it wouldn't be nerfed any time soon or given time.
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Adellie on September 18, 2009, 01:43:46 am
Talis said on 1 topic that they tried out -15% (with of course the -3 dex they give each) then tried out -20% said wasn't hardly any difference with 2 then tried -25% with 2 and said its just about right so guessing with Kiel card they tested out to the point it wouldn't be nerfed any time soon or given time.
When those cards were initially discussed, i heard kiel would be -15%cooldown (and -3dex) instead of -30%.
i was pleasantly surprised to see them come out at -25% instead! ^_^
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Talis on September 18, 2009, 02:37:25 am
Talis said on 1 topic that they tried out -15% (with of course the -3 dex they give each) then tried out -20% said wasn't hardly any difference with 2 then tried -25% with 2 and said its just about right so guessing with Kiel card they tested out to the point it wouldn't be nerfed any time soon or given time.
When those cards were initially discussed, i heard kiel would be -15%cooldown (and -3dex) instead of -30%.
i was pleasantly surprised to see them come out at -25% instead! ^_^

Haha, thank you!

Our belief is to try and make new cards retain their usefulness while not being overpowered. In general, I do not mind if a card adds a new layer of strategy to the game ( which no doubt any good card will do ), as long as it is not so overpowered that it destroy several other layers of strategy. ( As in, I do not really want to add any .. one card to rule them all kind of thing. )

So in the end, we wanted to make Kiel card appealing and nice to use, but not overpowered.

In the end, our testing concluded:
HP benefits from it mostly in PvM, and PvM is not really that much of a issue. You can buff/heal people faster which is only good, but priests AoE spells mostly do damage/heal in waves, so even stacking them ontop of each other does not give a big advantage. It is good to cover a wider area in niff, or with sancts, and it is good to squeeze out more heals, frost novas, cold bolts and so forth, but that should definitely not make this class broken. Especially since it is assumed that with the introduction of the Hwiz card, GTB might come more into favor again which would make buffing / healing guild members difficult.

Thus, I conclude that Kiel is absolutely not broken on HP and, with a high probability I can say that it will not be nerfed.

Now, please keep in mind, I can't promise you, or give you a 100% that it won't be changed as you know,
abusable techniques or something or another might always come up, but it does seem rather unlikely.
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Emi on September 18, 2009, 04:11:03 am
Thus, I conclude that Kiel is absolutely not broken on HP and, with a high probability I can say that it will not be nerfed.
Thank you for answering my question Mr. Talis!

I like that the kiel lets me use buffs/debuffs faster, such as Lex Aeternia, kyrie etc. Resu lvl 4 has horrendous spell delay too (for pvp) I would rather have support ability from kiel more than offensive power of HW. I do not even hotkey magic crasher, cold bolt or holy light. :p
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Razer on September 18, 2009, 04:21:08 am
It will be a fast GJ eater. The classes that gain maximum advantage out of this are Sinx,Lks,Clowns-Gypsies and Snipers.
For one they dont rely on IC so sacrificing that main headgear for 2 Kiels wont be much of an issue.

Also does Kiel stack with Braggi ? If It does it would be a sure Riot in war.
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Adellie on September 18, 2009, 04:27:51 am
good job GMs /no1 I already see a few happy customers with their kiel card.
I will be getting that card for my high priest also. Waiting for lex aterna sure is a pain in the back.

It will be a fast GJ eater. The classes that gain maximum advantage out of this are Sinx,Lks,Clowns-Gypsies and Snipers.
For one they dont rely on IC so sacrificing that main headgear for 2 Kiels wont be much of an issue.

Also does Kiel stack with Braggi ? If It does it be a sure Riot in war.
oh man... Clown/Gypsy+Kiel Card sounds scary. >.>
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: exDragon on September 18, 2009, 07:34:26 am
If you use 3 drops in your evag, will will have to put up with the delay caused by having a slow attack speed.
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: SwiftStrike on September 18, 2009, 11:20:01 am
If you use 3 drops in your evag, will will have to put up with the delay caused by having a slow attack speed.
^
why 3 drops when you can get IC already? (might be losing out on this animation delay--even though you "never" use those offensive spells, they'd still help on the others)
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: kurip on September 18, 2009, 01:37:49 pm
Also does Kiel stack with Braggi ? If It does it would be a sure Riot in war.

they stack, me and some people tested on pvp this morning
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Yoshi on September 18, 2009, 02:35:51 pm
i would Keep the Evang as it is 1 dex each card isnt worth it if your going to use 2 kiels your gonna have -6 dex @_@
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: balam on September 18, 2009, 02:38:02 pm
i would Keep the Evang as it is 1 dex each card isnt worth it if your going to use 2 kiels your gonna have -6 dex @_@

-26 with no kaho
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Yoshi on September 18, 2009, 03:42:06 pm
i would Keep the Evang as it is 1 dex each card isnt worth it if your going to use 2 kiels your gonna have -6 dex @_@

-26 with no kaho
Just another reason to just get only get 1 Kiel in your Case Emi  :P

I just hope Kiel isnt gonna make Bio's Casting and Champs etc broken. i would think -5 dex from kiel much more like it  :P
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Hard Weapon on September 18, 2009, 05:01:32 pm
High heal classes such as Pallies and HPs will just be huge tanks with IW + 2.8-4k heals using Bascojin + Kiel.


I do see a problem with Pressure spamming pallies that wear Kiel on Valk and Kiel mid.  Less cool down = more spam of a skill that can't be blocked and drains HP/SP.  Believe it or not, it makes surviving 2 pallies pressure-spam nearly impossible.  1 pressure spamming is bad enough.
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Emi on September 18, 2009, 05:26:52 pm
High heal classes such as Pallies and HPs will just be huge tanks with IW + 2.8-4k heals using Bascojin + Kiel.
If HP uses two Kiels, they will have no offensive power at all. I think this is a fair tradeoff. I dont know about Palis though. They have always had super high survivability mixed with very high offensive capability and support.
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Hard Weapon on September 18, 2009, 05:42:44 pm
High heal classes such as Pallies and HPs will just be huge tanks with IW + 2.8-4k heals using Bascojin + Kiel.
If HP uses two Kiels, they will have no offensive power at all. I think this is a fair tradeoff. I dont know about Palis though. They have always had super high survivability mixed with very high offensive capability and support.



That's the defenition of broken.  Valk Helm [Kiel] and Mini Glasses [Kiel]; the only loss of power you face is -20 int and the -20 dex loss; but it's not a big difference because with Bless [+10], 2x Sting Bry [+18], Evang [+20], Job Lv. bonus [+9] = + 57 dex, meaning you'd need 93 dex for IC, and distribute the rest between Int and Vit (not much though because of Valks +20 vit).

Priests won't suffer a big loss swapping from kaho to Kiel Valk Helm.
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Razer on September 18, 2009, 06:16:24 pm
A single Kiel in a Braggi can make you chain gun Acid Demoes. I reckon Kiel Pallys would gain higher priority to be killed in war over clowns now :P
2 Kiels is just wrong though - They should put some mechanism to disallow it while this thing is still fresh and new.

I would make a suggestion to disallow this but I am too tired to take bashing over it :(

Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: @schoLary@ on September 18, 2009, 06:32:05 pm
A single Kiel in a Braggi can make you chain gun Acid Demoes. I reckon Kiel Pallys would gain higher priority to be killed in war over clowns now :P
2 Kiels is just wrong though - They should put some mechanism to disallow it while this thing is still fresh and new.

I would make a suggestion to disallow this but I am too tired to take bashing over it :(



This would probably run into effect with scholars as well. I mean can you imagine a scholar with two kiels and 190 ASPD? Those double bolts will make eddga useless. Hell try one with HW card combo against MDEF wearers. Just need to start carrying some blue gemstones to for safetywall if any scholars even still use it.
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Razer on September 18, 2009, 06:41:48 pm
I am more concerned how powerful Braggied double kieled Sharp shooters will become in war. Heck we will see an increase in snipers. They already hurt high despite war reductions and gear reductions - now imagine that at twice the speed in a braggi. Same goes for clowns - Super fast tarots will make clowns/Gypsies an asset for offense too. Sinx / Lks will have to suffer in damage / cast speed just like cast reliant classes to use double kiel. Champs will get faster healing so now duels will perhaps be made inside PVP Potless /heh
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: @schoLary@ on September 18, 2009, 06:43:43 pm
I am more concerned how powerful Braggied double kieled Sharp shooters will become in war. Heck we will see an increase in snipers. They already hurt high despite war reductions and gear reductions - now imagine that at twice the speed in a braggi. Same goes for clowns - Super fast tarots will make clowns/Gypsies an asset for offense too. Sinx / Lks will have to suffer in damage / cast speed just like cast reliant classes to use double kiel. Champs will get faster healing so now duels will perhaps be made inside PVP Potless /heh

I believe that would a good thing? Since it would bring people into potless PvP as well.
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Yoshi on September 18, 2009, 06:43:54 pm
A single Kiel in a Braggi can make you chain gun Acid Demoes. I reckon Kiel Pallys would gain higher priority to be killed in war over clowns now :P
2 Kiels is just wrong though - They should put some mechanism to disallow it while this thing is still fresh and new.

I would make a suggestion to disallow this but I am too tired to take bashing over it :(


I totally agree with this statement and i think a suggestion about it should be made because If you bring this to peoples attention you would get more support when they see for themselves how broken 2 kiels is  :-\

Make each Kiel -10 dex? /gg
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: @schoLary@ on September 18, 2009, 06:45:43 pm
Oh damn I forgot I should TOTALLY grab me those too. >.> Good thing I have a two spare slotted mid headgears. Also I have my Berzebub cards If only I could get Djinn first so I can IC. XD but yay for me. +_+
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Razer on September 18, 2009, 06:51:07 pm
A question for you guys - Does Bascojin buff Slim pot heal ? It buffs regular pot pitch heal but regular pots weigh a tonne : [
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Hard Weapon on September 18, 2009, 06:58:27 pm
I think Kiel should be like the meg.  -25% after cast delay (one time bonus); the second only adds 5%.
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: drigerx1 on September 18, 2009, 07:00:11 pm
i thought they already nerfed the kiel. and wtf, if its fine on kro/iro, it should be fine for our server ;-;
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Yoshi on September 18, 2009, 07:03:03 pm
I think Kiel should be like the meg.  -25% after cast delay (one time bonus); the second only adds 5%.
I like this idea too or maybe 20% on 1 and the second ads 10%  :P
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Hard Weapon on September 18, 2009, 07:05:32 pm
i thought they already nerfed the kiel. and wtf, if its fine on kro/iro, it should be fine for our server ;-;

Right.  Because kRO and iRO has SQIs and Kahos/Valk Helms that give +20 to most stats,  and slotted Brisingammens +5 all stats plus a slot, and Doppels that give 30% atk speed.


Completely different mechanics.
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: hunksurvivorx on September 18, 2009, 07:11:19 pm
i wanna 2 kiels and bragi to desperado in emp room and kill bishes D:
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: drigerx1 on September 18, 2009, 07:20:54 pm
i thought they already nerfed the kiel. and wtf, if its fine on kro/iro, it should be fine for our server ;-;

Right.  Because kRO and iRO has SQIs and Kahos/Valk Helms that give +20 to most stats,  and slotted Brisingammens +5 all stats plus a slot, and Doppels that give 30% atk speed.


Completely different mechanics.
well damn, if we have those kind of gears, why do they feel the need to nerf things?
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Hard Weapon on September 18, 2009, 07:25:14 pm
i thought they already nerfed the kiel. and wtf, if its fine on kro/iro, it should be fine for our server ;-;

Right.  Because kRO and iRO has SQIs and Kahos/Valk Helms that give +20 to most stats,  and slotted Brisingammens +5 all stats plus a slot, and Doppels that give 30% atk speed.


Completely different mechanics.
well damn, if we have those kind of gears, why do they feel the need to nerf things?


Think of it this way:

iRO/kRO = Mustang (stock).

aRO = Porsche / Ferrari / Lambo.

Kiel the way it is + Gears we have now will make aRO a Buggati with 1 Jet Engine in the back and a level 4 Turbo on the main engine.
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: drigerx1 on September 18, 2009, 07:27:35 pm
well... I guess that would be overkill... thanks for clearing that up deadly.
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: hunksurvivorx on September 18, 2009, 07:27:59 pm
lol
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: SwiftStrike on September 18, 2009, 08:28:34 pm
the only huge problem with it is IC(or really near it w/ some skills) AND cast delay reduction
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Hard Weapon on September 18, 2009, 10:45:20 pm
Which is generally easy.

50% Redux with 2 Kiels, put that same char in WoE in a Bragi and you have 0 Cool down.


Can you immagine a Sniper with TTH + Immaterial Arrow; 2x Sting Bry + Valk Helm [Kiel] + Mid [Kiel] ?  Thats Sharp Shoot spam that will rip you in two.  Sure you can Pneuma, but if the opossing team sets up a entry like: LP on entry warp and after the LP you set down ANkle Snares w/ AoE SG all over it...It'll become an unpenetrable defence if you have the correctly geared people.
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Pab on September 18, 2009, 11:38:09 pm
Which is generally easy.

50% Redux with 2 Kiels, put that same char in WoE in a Bragi and you have 0 Cool down.


Can you immagine a Sniper with TTH + Immaterial Arrow; 2x Sting Bry + Valk Helm [Kiel] + Mid [Kiel] ?  Thats Sharp Shoot spam that will rip you in two.  Sure you can Pneuma, but if the opossing team sets up a entry like: LP on entry warp and after the LP you set down ANkle Snares w/ AoE SG all over it...It'll become an unpenetrable defence if you have the correctly geared people.
Yeah except sharp shoot is reduced by a ton in woe; not to mention, it doesn't do epic damage without a decent crit rate. ::)
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Hard Weapon on September 19, 2009, 12:11:21 am
Which is generally easy.

50% Redux with 2 Kiels, put that same char in WoE in a Bragi and you have 0 Cool down.


Can you immagine a Sniper with TTH + Immaterial Arrow; 2x Sting Bry + Valk Helm [Kiel] + Mid [Kiel] ?  Thats Sharp Shoot spam that will rip you in two.  Sure you can Pneuma, but if the opossing team sets up a entry like: LP on entry warp and after the LP you set down ANkle Snares w/ AoE SG all over it...It'll become an unpenetrable defence if you have the correctly geared people.
Yeah except sharp shoot is reduced by a ton in woe; not to mention, it doesn't do epic damage without a decent crit rate. ::)

You obviously never got SS'ed by VINCENT, he did a 15k SS on me once /ok.  A 7k SS is enough to rape at nearly 190 ASPD - the cooldown will be how fast you can press+click.  It'll be a distance EDP which does a semi AoE since SS goes in a straight line to all targets in that line.  Two snipers doing 7k damage, say 4 hits per second, as well as SG and other things hitting you...  Okay.
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: streeth5 on September 19, 2009, 12:20:10 am
i hate kiel card. D:
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: balam on September 19, 2009, 01:27:25 am
yeah Vincent was crazy its a shame he was banned and you guys dunno why....
SS needs crits and with 2 kiels you lose 20+ on a sniper, get some back by a chung E garment


even with 0 cool down you wouldnt notice more than bragi speed cause is about how fast can you press the next skill not really 0 cool down
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Razer on September 19, 2009, 03:57:04 am
yeah Vincent was crazy its a shame he was banned and you guys dunno why....
SS needs crits and with 2 kiels you lose 20+ on a sniper, get some back by a chung E garment


even with 0 cool down you wouldnt notice more than bragi speed cause is about how fast can you press the next skill not really 0 cool down
Vincent was an arse - He wasnt good ever- He got banned for what made him good since most likely it was illegal. There was a good reason why he never showed himself on PVP.

Also Pab read my post about SS on page 2.
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Haine on September 19, 2009, 05:13:34 am
A question for you guys - Does Bascojin buff Slim pot heal ? It buffs regular pot pitch heal but regular pots weigh a tonne : [

Just Pot Pitch. SPP isn't affected.
Title: Re: Will new cards be nerfed?
Post by: Razer on September 19, 2009, 05:27:13 am
A question for you guys - Does Bascojin buff Slim pot heal ? It buffs regular pot pitch heal but regular pots weigh a tonne : [

Just Pot Pitch. SPP isn't affected.
In that case its useless for me to get as a Bio. SPP seemingly heals quite a bit more unless you run a soul link on for regular pots. But Regular pot pitch spams slower and the regular pots weigh a ton. Thanks Gravity for giving Bios a useless soul link and making the Basco card not proc with SPP :\ I guess I ll stick to Kiel then