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The 'Other' Section => AnesisRO Archive => Archive => General Questions => Topic started by: Evilness45 on October 10, 2011, 08:35:43 pm
Title: So, i want a new shield
Post by: Evilness45 on October 10, 2011, 08:35:43 pm
Ive supported the server recently and therefore I have my eye on a new piece of gear, namely a shield.
I want a valk shield, but omg theres a card slot. I want to use my shield for both PvP and PvE (which is not PvP), and I would like to know what kind of card people use. I know about maya card. What else, I want to know my options.
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: Miyon on October 10, 2011, 08:43:51 pm
Common valk carding: Toad
I don't pvp much but I woe and I use a toad valk ???
Thinking of getting an alice valk though :-X
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: Evilness45 on October 10, 2011, 08:49:22 pm
Toad is only for demi-humans. I want to kill monsters too.
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: SanRath on October 10, 2011, 08:49:53 pm
Tirfing is a pretty lil number.
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: triggeres on October 10, 2011, 09:28:48 pm
farm a stone buckler or a couple and card them with trifing and/or alice
have the valk for toad
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: Evilness45 on October 10, 2011, 09:30:00 pm
But... but... it seems like an awesome shield for adventuring!
Why a stone buckler?
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: L'Fluffy on October 10, 2011, 09:38:11 pm
He's always busy now. :( I think everyone in the guild pretty much is. :(
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: Evilness45 on October 10, 2011, 10:02:21 pm
There's lots of stuff out there that does elemental damage, or spells. I only figured that it was pretty much the best shield available.
And I'm not gonna join non-sqi woe, or any woe: I don't pvp much (i do battleground, but that's only because i want a weapon for biolab).
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: triggeres on October 10, 2011, 10:10:02 pm
in that case trifing it is for your valk,it semi works in pvp since everyone is medium size except for LKs/Pallies on a Peco (I think) and works about anywhere else
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: Evilness45 on October 10, 2011, 10:12:18 pm
Why is maya a bad choice?
30 mdef and 18% autoguard seems nice to me
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: ~Axle~ on October 10, 2011, 10:13:16 pm
Like people are saying, Valk goes best with Toad and Maya.
1) Most useful in PvP/Woe. You might not PvP much, but it still happens. You also BG, and Toad will help more than anything. 2) There's quite a few Demi-human monsters. Most Orcs, Four MvP's, etc, etc. It's still useful for PvM. 3) Resale value. A Toad Valk will sell extremely easily compared to a Tirfing Valk. You might think you won't resell it, but plan for the future, right?
Tirfings most often go in Stone Bucklers, and overupped Guards, due to the ease of use, and relatively cheap value.
Also - It depends on your class too. If you're a Pally, maybe you want an overupped Cross shield instead of a Valk?
Mdef isn't all that useful for PvM. I mean - it's good to have, but reducing race or property damage works better. It's by no means a bad idea - but there might be something better out there to get first and foremost.
Edit: Also - hit me up when you plan to BG. I've been meaning to try that. I'm the bloody knight sitting next to you.
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: The Mystic on October 10, 2011, 10:35:44 pm
Maya is the most useful choice outside of pvp/woe.
I like to see that since it was my original choice, but some people doesn't seem to agree.
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: cis_trans on October 11, 2011, 11:02:02 am
Yeah maya isn't a good choice. I could elaborate in WALLS of text, but axle summed it up nicely. Also johnsu is terrible in pvm, so never listen to him. :police:
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: Evilness45 on October 11, 2011, 11:05:58 am
Yeah maya isn't a good choice. I could elaborate in WALLS of text, but axle summed it up nicely. Also johnsu is terrible in pvm, so never listen to him. :police:
You say maya is a good choice, but then you say Axle sum it up (and he says that maya is a good choice). Mind blown
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: cis_trans on October 11, 2011, 11:48:09 am
I should refer to his post better it was one part that I liked.
Quote
Mdef isn't all that useful for PvM. I mean - it's good to have, but reducing race or property damage works better. It's by no means a bad idea - but there might be something better out there to get first and foremost.
it was this part I meant to refer to. Mdef reduction is nothing really. especially when dealing with physical damage and the plethora of armor ignoring/mdef ignoring stuff, 30 mdef versus 30% racial or 25% size reduction or even elemental reduction can be HUGE depending on what you're going up against.
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: Evilness45 on October 11, 2011, 01:01:29 pm
I should refer to his post better it was one part that I liked.
Quote
Mdef isn't all that useful for PvM. I mean - it's good to have, but reducing race or property damage works better. It's by no means a bad idea - but there might be something better out there to get first and foremost.
it was this part I meant to refer to. Mdef reduction is nothing really. especially when dealing with physical damage and the plethora of armor ignoring/mdef ignoring stuff, 30 mdef versus 30% racial or 25% size reduction or even elemental reduction can be HUGE depending on what you're going up against.
I understand that, but the thing is that I want a single shield.
Also, consider that 30 mdef is added to what I already have, which is 20 (25 if i have a valk shield). In the end, 30 mdef protects me more than a 30% reduction (although it true that mdef doesnt work against lots of things). Mathematically, if i had 25 mdef and I add 30 mdef, i suddenly receive 40% less damage from any spells than before.
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: cis_trans on October 11, 2011, 05:53:44 pm
edit edit : typed up a lot to respond, then lost in on a failed connection.
short version : that a bad calculation cause it assumes waaaay too much, and shouldn't be used in your decision. And just go based off what's been said in the thread already. :) Happy gaming. :)
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: Evilness45 on October 11, 2011, 07:15:58 pm
edit edit : typed up a lot to respond, then lost in on a failed connection.
short version : that a bad calculation cause it assumes waaaay too much, and shouldn't be used in your decision. And just go based off what's been said in the thread already. :) Happy gaming. :)
How is it bad? I always wear my kaho, and it gives 20 mdef. That means it eats 20% of the spell damage, leaving 80%. Now, if I add another 30 mdef, thats another 30% going. Which is lowered to 50%. Then the valk shield, which lower it further to 45%.
Lets say I use Toad instead. I have valk and kaho (25 mdef, leaving 75% of the damage intact). The 40% is handled after mdef instead of added. So we reduce 40% (*0.6) of 75% (*0.75). That does 45%.
That's the math. I am fully aware that this is RO and it was coded by people that think that math is some kind of coffee brew, but if you say I'm wrong, you should say why.
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: cis_trans on October 11, 2011, 07:24:20 pm
I dont wanna type it all out. What I said is that you're assuming on a PURELY magic basis with the maya. And a lot of the damage you receive isn't magic at all . And right now with your two comparisons, the toad takes into account other forms of damage, and by inspection is a better choice. Like I said, i had all this nicely laid out but lost it,sorry. You're getting defensive, I didn't mean you're wrong as in HURR YOURE STUPID, i meant in that you should look at all the factors when deciding not focusing solely on the mdef/magic portion if you want get the best bang for your buck. Good day.
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: Evilness45 on October 11, 2011, 07:32:34 pm
I realise that few of my damage is magical, but at the same time, i almost never fight demi-humans.
Its like, i have a tirfing buckler, but i realised it wasnt really useful yesterday in juperos, where everything is either big or small, and deal like all the elements.
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: ~Axle~ on October 11, 2011, 09:12:22 pm
I understand you want a single shield, but think of it this way:
For the price of a Maya, you could get: Tirfing, Alice, Teddy, Anubis, Khal, and still have 10 or so Ads left over. All in all, those cover Medium, MvP, Undead, Angel, and demon properties. When reducing damage; instead of relying only on Mdef, it's smarter to use property reduction. Going to Thor? Fire Armour or Jakk cards. Etc, Etc.
This is more or less what Brahms is trying to say. I don't have the exact calculations anymore since we switched to eA, but I'm pretty much 99% sure that unless you want to run massive Mdef (Gotta Include Gibbet, Etc) just for the fun of it, it's not a viable idea anymore. Also - some MVP's have Mdef piercing attacks now as well.
We're only trying to give you advice though, If you don't like what you see, just pick whatever you want.
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: Evilness45 on October 11, 2011, 09:23:49 pm
It's just a bummer. I see that 20 ads shield and everyone tells me to get 4 shields.
I just wanna upgrade my tirfing guard, which is the only shield I really use.
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: Avarie on October 11, 2011, 10:08:44 pm
But... but... it seems like an awesome shield for adventuring!
Why a stone buckler?
Def, cheap
Because theres an extra 5% reduc on large. Good for MVPs.
Your best overall carding is going to be a tirfing. Reducs from both monsters and humans. Personally I bought myself both a tirfing for non SQI/monsters and a toad valk.
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: SilentIce on October 11, 2011, 11:45:53 pm
Here is the short version of it.
Don't over think it. Go with what you want. The best choice for them isn't always the best choice for you, and choice for you won't always be theirs.
Its a game, have fun with it! :)
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: Evilness45 on October 11, 2011, 11:50:03 pm
Don't over think it. Go with what you want. The best choice for them isn't always the best choice for you, and choice for you won't always be theirs.
Its a game, have fun with it! :)
Sorry to say that like that, but I ignore pretty much everything you say.
Title: Re: So, i want a new shield
Post by: The Mystic on October 12, 2011, 12:28:19 am
Hodremlin seems to be the only thing closest to a all purpose shield, but it will never be the best. You are always going to need swaps. No question about it.