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The 'Other' Section => AnesisRO Archive => Archive => General Questions => Topic started by: Pasis on November 15, 2010, 10:23:22 pm

Title: Carding question.
Post by: Pasis on November 15, 2010, 10:23:22 pm

So, occasionally I will go around assisting small teams in MvPing, and it is quite necessary that I can take some punishment at times. Especially when facing the newer MvPs.

I need to weigh in what to put this Alice Card in:

+7 Stone Buckler[1] or a +4 Valkyrja Shield[1]. Or a better yet affordable suggestion.

I also have Penomena Cards and an Executioner Card in my possession, so if one has a good idea what I should aim to put it in with, do tell. I might want to put it in that +7 Guard[1] I have, but perhaps some other shield is good too.

Also, it is time I card this +4 Volcano Armor with something (for largely Thor Dungeon, or sometimes Magma Dungeon), and I'm thinking:

Garm Card, or RSX-0806. Or some other suggestion is fine too.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Muranodo on November 15, 2010, 10:42:13 pm

Quote from: Pasis on November 15, 2010, 10:23:22 pm

So, occasionally I will go around assisting small teams in MvPing, and it is quite necessary that I can take some punishment at times. Especially when facing the newer MvPs.

I need to weigh in what to put this Alice Card in:

+7 Stone Buckler[1] or a +4 Valkyrja Shield[1]. Or a better yet affordable suggestion.

I also have Penomena Cards and an Executioner Card in my possession, so if one has a good idea what I should aim to put it in with, do tell. I might want to put it in that +7 Guard[1] I have, but perhaps some other shield is good too.

Also, it is time I card this +4 Volcano Armor with something (for largely Thor Dungeon, or sometimes Magma Dungeon), and I'm thinking:

Garm Card, or RSX-0806. Or some other suggestion is fine too.

Unless you're aiming to use the Magni set (like a SG might) or are/have a Crusader/Paladin/LK/Knight...

I still find a +7 Guard to be sufficient.  

Stone Bucklers have become lately a more popular alternative to a +7 Guard since they're not that hard to farm, so if you intend to farm them you might consider it.
It depends ultimately on if those bonuses will be that useful to you.  I wouldn't advise a Valk Shield just due to it being a very potentially hard resale down the line.
I purchased my +7 Stone Bucklers because I intended to keep them on hand for my paladin for situations where tanking with a Toad Aegis wouldn't be desirable.

I personally use my Executioner card in an +8 Guard, and it works relatively well.  When I did bother using a Penomena card, it was also in a Guard.  It was +5 at the time before I sold it.  I had originally purchased it for Ice Dungeon / Thor usage, but I found an Executioner would work just find in Ice Dungeon, and I opted for an Alice in Thors, so I saw no reason to keep it.

At present, I mostly swap between a +7 Tirfing Guard, +8 Executioner Guard, +7 Hodremlin Stone Buckler, +7 Alice Stone Buckler, and a +4 GTB guard based off whatever purpose I have in PvM.  And it all works relatively well.  You mentioned assisting small teams and potentially taking punishment.  I've done such during BB parties with said gears, and I've survived fairly well even when taking some damage.  So I don't think you'd need to necessarily go too expensive with your purchases there.

Fire Garm or Tao Gunka were fairly typical for Thors dungeon as I recall.  RSX-0806 would only really be advisable if you intend to seriously farm Magma Dungeon, in my opinion.  The pushback isn't that bad, but it is a bit annoying.  :x I personally just did fine with a +5 Pasana Glit in both cases myself.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Ren Ren on November 15, 2010, 11:16:14 pm

I'm using a +4 Alice stone buckler atm. It works well for tanking mvps since most mvps are large and stone buck gives 5% reduction from large monster. Works well for thor too. So IMO, Alice stone buck > Alice valk and it's cheaper too.

When carding a volcano armor[1], it depends on what and where you play the most. RSX fire is good for WS but it doesn't work for aco class and I think Garm fire is not really necessary for thor or magma. But everything depends on what you're playing. I just use +7 Silk robe for both dungeons on my HP. Cheaper and gotta love the mdef since kasa and friend likes to fireball me xD

So basically what I'm saying is it all depends on what you play the most. Garm fire for universal or just some little silk robe for HP (assuming you play HP most of the time D;).

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Pasis on November 15, 2010, 11:32:08 pm

Quote from: Muranodo on November 15, 2010, 10:42:13 pm

Quote from: Pasis on November 15, 2010, 10:23:22 pm

So, occasionally I will go around assisting small teams in MvPing, and it is quite necessary that I can take some punishment at times. Especially when facing the newer MvPs.

I need to weigh in what to put this Alice Card in:

+7 Stone Buckler[1] or a +4 Valkyrja Shield[1]. Or a better yet affordable suggestion.

I also have Penomena Cards and an Executioner Card in my possession, so if one has a good idea what I should aim to put it in with, do tell. I might want to put it in that +7 Guard[1] I have, but perhaps some other shield is good too.

Also, it is time I card this +4 Volcano Armor with something (for largely Thor Dungeon, or sometimes Magma Dungeon), and I'm thinking:

Garm Card, or RSX-0806. Or some other suggestion is fine too.

Unless you're aiming to use the Magni set (like a SG might) or are/have a Crusader/Paladin/LK/Knight...

I still find a +7 Guard to be sufficient.  

Stone Bucklers have become lately a more popular alternative to a +7 Guard since they're not that hard to farm, so if you intend to farm them you might consider it.
It depends ultimately on if those bonuses will be that useful to you.  I wouldn't advise a Valk Shield just due to it being a very potentially hard resale down the line.
I purchased my +7 Stone Bucklers because I intended to keep them on hand for my paladin for situations where tanking with a Toad Aegis wouldn't be desirable.

I personally use my Executioner card in an +8 Guard, and it works relatively well.  When I did bother using a Penomena card, it was also in a Guard.  It was +5 at the time before I sold it.  I had originally purchased it for Ice Dungeon / Thor usage, but I found an Executioner would work just find in Ice Dungeon, and I opted for an Alice in Thors, so I saw no reason to keep it.

At present, I mostly swap between a +7 Tirfing Guard, +8 Executioner Guard, +7 Hodremlin Stone Buckler, +7 Alice Stone Buckler, and a +4 GTB guard based off whatever purpose I have in PvM.  And it all works relatively well.  You mentioned assisting small teams and potentially taking punishment.  I've done such during BB parties with said gears, and I've survived fairly well even when taking some damage.  So I don't think you'd need to necessarily go too expensive with your purchases there.

Fire Garm or Tao Gunka were fairly typical for Thors dungeon as I recall.  RSX-0806 would only really be advisable if you intend to seriously farm Magma Dungeon, in my opinion.  The pushback isn't that bad, but it is a bit annoying.  :x I personally just did fine with a +5 Pasana Glit in both cases myself.

Oh, I see.

Resaling and class issues aside, would an Alice Valkyrja Shield be better anyways? I rarely resell my items.

Well, I was thinking using a Penomena in areas such as Juperos. On the other hand, Executioner as well as Penomena (since Ice Titans and Snowiers are apparently Formless) may also be useful in Ice Dungeon. But would a Penomena +7 Stone Buckler be fine too, on the account that both these creatures are also Large? It sounds a little uneconomically viable to waste it on a small portion of the monster populace, though. But lets just say for overall defensive sake. How would it be then?

Quote from: Ren Ren on November 15, 2010, 11:16:14 pm

I'm using a +4 Alice stone buckler atm. It works well for tanking mvps since most mvps are large and stone buck gives 5% reduction from large monster. Works well for thor too. So IMO, Alice stone buck > Alice valk and it's cheaper too.

When carding a volcano armor[1], it depends on what and where you play the most. RSX fire is good for WS but it doesn't work for aco class and I think Garm fire is not really necessary for thor or magma. But everything depends on what you're playing. I just use +7 Silk robe for both dungeons on my HP. Cheaper and gotta love the mdef since kasa and friend likes to fireball me xD

So basically what I'm saying is it all depends on what you play the most. Garm fire for universal or just some little silk robe for HP (assuming you play HP most of the time D;).

Well, I do indeed have an unused +7 Silk Robe[1] and a Pasana at hand. /heh

I may put it to good use. Though I'm just a little wary of bastards like Guardians, however small the encounters are at times. Then again, with the Alice, a lot of of the damage is placed elsewhere.

I always play either two things - High Priest, or a Magic class. And I play High Priest more. So your suggestion is plausible.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Muranodo on November 16, 2010, 12:04:33 am

Quote from: Pasis on November 15, 2010, 10:23:22 pm

Oh, I see.

Resaling and class issues aside, would an Alice Valkyrja Shield be better anyways? I rarely resell my items.

Well, I was thinking using a Penomena in areas such as Juperos. On the other hand, Executioner as well as Penomena (since Ice Titans and Snowiers are apparently Formless) may also be useful in Ice Dungeon. But would a Penomena +7 Stone Buckler be fine too, on the account that both these creatures are also Large? It sounds a little uneconomically viable to waste it on a small portion of the monster populace, though. But lets just say for overall defensive sake. How would it be then?

That's one of those it all depends on the situation.

Valkyrja Shields are very desirable WoE shields due to the MDEF they provide and the elemental reductions as they're the main types used in WoE with water/fire elemental SQIs, Nib, cursed water, etc). It gives +5 MDEF, so it works well with the Maya card.  And it also works well for Toad, so you don't completely lose all the MDEF on the shield slot while protecting yourself.

So while they may seem like one of the best shields, they are for the above purpose, but it doesn't make them as good in PvM.  As of right now, Stone Bucklers really are the best for that right now.  They've become popular fast, and you're seeing less slotted Guards/Bucklers now even though they're still sufficient. Even if you don't have a swordsman type, if nothing else, you get the reduction in damage against large monsters, and you almost always run into some type of large monster on any higher level monster maps.

I wasn't sure what class you were playing, but my guess was HP and/or caster based off my general impression of you; it appeared astute as indicated by your reply below.  The MDEF will help a little, but you'll already have plenty of your own as either a HP / caster type from stating INT.  So that leaves the Add a 20% resistance against Water, Fire, Shadow and Undead Property.  

And what I say from here comes from personal experience.  I made a few +4 Valk Shields on Ratemyserver's test server to try them out against MvPs and the like.  I felt like I preferred the greater defense overall because Fire Property was ultimately the main one I really found use for in general PvM play.  Water was not really at all. Shadow some.  Undead not really at all again.  I'd personally preferred the extra defense in the end.  I could see it being desirable in WoE, but I wouldn't personally use them as tanking shields.

I'd strongly advise you give it a go on the test server if you're still wavering here.  Even though they don't have SQIs on the test server (obviously), you can still modify your stats to simulate like you have them on and basically recreate your character anyway and try whatever situation you want.

I'd advise an Alice Stone Buckler in the end for the extra damage reduction against large enemies since some of the MvPs that can be annoying are large.  A guard would still be sufficient, but the little bonus is still nice. From there, smart swapping whether with a GTB (for Earthquake) or with Ghostring armors/elemental armors (or at least an angeling / bathory set) will still reduce those pesky elemental / neutral damage hurt skills even without a Valk Shield.  Even if you don't resell your items I personally don't think the +4 Valk Shield would be worth it as such.

If you were to plan on doing Juperos a lot I might advise getting a Penomena, but I'd say only for that.  You could potentially use it with Ice Dungeon as well, but the monsters in Ice Dungeon aren't that bad by themselves.  You could tank them without much effort just fine on a HP since the large monsters don't attack at a high ASPD rate (unlike the Gazetis); the other caster classes can take blows here and there as long as it's not continuous with energy coat on. Caster classes primarily only really bother with Ice Dungeon; they really don't have much trouble there.  I only used a Tirfing for most of my time there. And my frail wizard / sage / soul linkers from when I started earlier on would do okay.  I tried an Executioner eventually, and it worked nicely though against the Snowiers/Ice Titans.  But I don't see 5% more damage reduction or 10% more with a Stone Buckler being all that necessary.

The only real annoyance there is the Gazetis, and they're demon/medium.

So you could get a +7 Penomena Stone Buckler and use it in both places; it'd be nice to get the racial + the reduction from them being large monsters together.  But that's just there.  In Juperos you'd mostly be getting the equivalent of a Penomena card in a +7 Guard except against Apocalypses.

However, it's one of those you realize Ice Dungeon's experience isn't that great, and they don't hurt that much.  So in the end I went with an Executioner over a Penomena in the end because it would work against Anubis as well since Sphinx 4/5 provided more useful experience.

I personally never advise racials anymore unless you're going to continually spend a great deal of time on that map, or they hurt at a relatively fast rate (like the dragons in Abyss).

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Pasis on November 16, 2010, 12:23:42 am

I'll consider getting a GTB somewhere in time.

At the moment Alice and Ghostring will just have to do versus Earthquake.

...

Okay, I'll try to make do on these suggestions. I'm just focussing to get a big and specialized shield set rather than a versatile set, so it is not necessary to pay attention on economical viability. Just looking for the right shields.

Thank you very  much.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: ExodusLight on November 16, 2010, 12:32:55 am

Eh, HP?
You should try to get a Diabolus Robe, it's great for HP's ; ;

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Muranodo on November 16, 2010, 12:33:12 am

Quote from: Pasis on November 16, 2010, 12:23:42 am

I'll consider getting a GTB somewhere in time.

At the moment Alice and Ghostring will just have to do versus Earthquake.

...

Okay, I'll try to make do on these suggestions. I'm just focussing to get a big and specialized shield set rather than a versatile set, so it is not necessary to pay attention on economical viability. Just looking for the right shields.

Thank you very  much.

GTB is by no means necessary. But it can be quite nice when some decide to spam it.

And if the money and practicality seem right then that makes perfect sense.  I'm glad some of the information proved helpful.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Pasis on November 16, 2010, 12:45:42 am

Quote from: /a/ on November 16, 2010, 12:32:55 am

Eh, HP?
You should try to get a Diabolus Robe, it's great for HP's ; ;

I would, if a +7 isn't so damn expensive. Even a +4 makes me piss in my pants.

And by that I'd probably just card it with a Garm rather than stuff anything else in it.

Just hoping people would farm that overgrown Jamaican bulldog extensively until it drops to 2-4 million per pop.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: ExodusLight on November 16, 2010, 12:49:26 am

just get a +4.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Pasis on November 16, 2010, 12:55:43 am

Quote from: /a/ on November 16, 2010, 12:49:26 am

just get a +4.

Your contribution is greatly appreciated.  :D

Please mail to either of the following characters: Pasis, Andorhal Eijin, or Judex.

I can only dish out so much for a wee armor. ._.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: ExodusLight on November 16, 2010, 01:03:39 am

Oh lawl.
Also, regarding the shielding:
I would card them all in +7 Guards.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Pasis on November 16, 2010, 01:07:49 am

Any reasons as such?

I mean both the not giving me a Diabolus Robe[1] and the Shielding choice.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: ExodusLight on November 16, 2010, 01:22:36 am

I don't farm the giant demon and, those cardings are usually used as swaps, and guards are so much lighter than the other shields.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Pasis on November 16, 2010, 01:28:40 am

So, if you do farm him, you'll give me one in eventuality? +_+

Also, I'm not really going to lug all of the shields around, I guess. Though there is some point in the weight part.

The weight I'm carrying now is quite heavy as it is. I only wish the weights weren't so influenced by WoE and PvP.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: aone on November 16, 2010, 01:37:39 am

rsx fire, gr diabolus, and i tank fine with a +7 alice guard though i eventually want a valk but i'm too cheap for 60m.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Pasis on November 16, 2010, 04:21:14 am

I'm very confused now.

But at least for certain the +7 Alice Stone Buckler is a done deal. Perhaps even that +7 Pasana Silk Robe suggestion.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Muranodo on November 16, 2010, 08:59:27 am

Quote from: Pasis on November 16, 2010, 04:21:14 am

I'm very confused now.

But at least for certain the +7 Alice Stone Buckler is a done deal. Perhaps even that +7 Pasana Silk Robe suggestion.

What's confusing?

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Pasis on November 16, 2010, 09:02:57 am

About that RSX 0806 Fire Armor. Should I? I still want to card it some way or another.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Muranodo on November 16, 2010, 09:23:54 am

Quote from: Pasis on November 16, 2010, 09:02:57 am

About that RSX 0806 Fire Armor. Should I? I still want to card it some way or another.

You're primarily a HP from the sound of things, so I'd advise a Garm over it.  And our RSX card is custom with its balancing penalty:

Can not be knocked back (Does not work with Acolyte class).
VIT + 3
Make an armor indestructible (except in upgrade attempts).

The above poster by the sound of it probably dual uses those gears in PvP/WoE.  Pushback removal has an obvious benefit there.  And the GR Diabolus Role has the obvious bonus of less aftercast delay and an increase in heal.  

Plus, you'd primarily be using it in Thors, yes? The only pushback there really is from the Bow Guardian's charge arrow.  So Fire Garm > Fire RSX there.  It could still be used in Magma Dungeon for tanking.  And in Dimensional Gorge as well.

Magma Dungeon use tends to be when people are mobbing Nightmare Terrors and all those little deleters (non-flying variant) come along and start spamming magnum break.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Pasis on November 16, 2010, 11:34:45 am

Oh, that kills everything. Garm it is then.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Muranodo on November 16, 2010, 11:39:38 am

Quote from: Pasis on November 16, 2010, 11:34:45 am

Oh, that kills everything. Garm it is then.

Yup.  It's nice to have an easy decision once in a while, after all.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: aone on November 16, 2010, 06:50:43 pm

i don't pvp, and there is no pushback in woe.

rsx works with aco classes. yes, it does. how can you otherwise tank things if you're getting pushed around? imps also push you around and they're annoying as hell. mvps push you around quite a bit, but then again, you don't usually use rsx fire to tank mvps.

if you're limited in funds, then by all means, get the garm armor. but i love love loooove rsx fire mobbing in thor.

gr diabolus is self explanatory for the quaking and benefits.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Muranodo on November 16, 2010, 07:10:41 pm

Quote from: aone on November 16, 2010, 06:50:43 pm

i don't pvp, and there is no pushback in woe.

rsx works with aco classes. yes, it does. how can you otherwise tank things if you're getting pushed around? imps also push you around and they're annoying as hell. mvps push you around quite a bit, but then again, you don't usually use rsx fire to tank mvps.

if you're limited in funds, then by all means, get the garm armor. but i love love loooove rsx fire mobbing in thor.

gr diabolus is self explanatory for the quaking and benefits.

You'll have to forgive the WoE ignorance since I hardly WoE and never have PvP'd.  I just know I've heard of it being used against JT spam.  But that's obviously for PvP then.

You can still tank obviously.  You just have to adjust to it since you won't be tanking well. /heh  

Not to mention Sightrasher from Kasas.  Just went in there to tank with my HP to see what it was like.  And yeah...if RSX works like you're saying then sorry for my earlier bad advice.

But if it works for Aco classes than the wording on the shop is quite misleading.  Unless that's just for PvP?

Plus threads like this are:

http://www.animusro.com/forums/index.php/topic,87174.0.html (http://www.animusro.com/forums/index.php/topic,87174.0.html)

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: aone on November 16, 2010, 09:15:06 pm

that was probably before the change :angel:

and they may or may not change it back sooner or later. but its sooooo helpful ;~ ;

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Muranodo on November 16, 2010, 09:44:43 pm

Quote from: aone on November 16, 2010, 09:15:06 pm

that was probably before the change :angel:

and they may or may not change it back sooner or later. but its sooooo helpful ;~ ;

Huh.  It's not even in the change log.  I like the change, and I hope they keep it that way then.

Fire RSX would be really nice down the line /heh

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Combo on November 16, 2010, 09:45:36 pm

Quote from: aone on November 16, 2010, 09:15:06 pm

that was probably before the change :angel:

and they may or may not change it back sooner or later. but its sooooo helpful ;~ ;

Would be nice if they just removed that effect in pvp like how they did with the errende card in WoE.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Ren Ren on November 16, 2010, 09:52:51 pm

Quote from: aone on November 16, 2010, 09:15:06 pm

that was probably before the change :angel:

and they may or may not change it back sooner or later. but its sooooo helpful ;~ ;

Need to get RSX fire now ;~; and hi hi lady ;3

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Pasis on November 16, 2010, 10:10:16 pm

I don't know either, on the count that I don't PvP or WoE.

So since RSX 0806 apparently works on a PvM (maybe MvP level too?), are there any merits to the RSX 0806 variation being superior to Garm in Thor/Magma Dungeon?

I'm a High Priest most of the time, so usually I'll be at the back healing, at times making moves to take hits if need be. The occasional pushback is quite annoying when you are running to heal some guy up the frontlines.

And this concern is there:

Quote from: aone on November 16, 2010, 09:15:06 pm

they may or may not change it back sooner or later.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Muranodo on November 16, 2010, 10:33:50 pm

Well, the biggest merit would be that you couldn't be knocked back now in my own opinion.  The unbreakable quality is also quite nice against certain MvPs that would break your armor.

Since you already have assumptio as a HP, the damage reduction from Garm isn't as straight out desirable as it would be to another class as well.

However, it's hard to endorse it like that with that potential merit also being a cause for concern.

You could always inquire about the card to the GMs if it'd help though.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: aone on November 16, 2010, 11:22:15 pm

hi hi <3

i meant server change. like combo noted, our rsx was modified for pvp fairness. it's now back to its original form.

i main hp and i've never had cause for garm. mobbing in thor with rsx fire is fun not to mention if you're the hp you should be on the frontline taking all the hits and healing yourself.  you can pneuma the spirals.

as for mvps, i don't really use rsx, i just wear the appropriate reductions or gr.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Pasis on November 17, 2010, 01:39:17 am

Eh, I'm not made of stone. I'll do just fine supporting at the back, since most of my mates are already walls of steel. Plus sometimes they are skinflints - if I die, and there are no other High Priests in the team, then team turns to jelly.

Umm... I'll ask when I have the time to think about what I should ask.

...

I have another question: Are Ifrit's slaves considered minibosses as they are normally in Thor's Dungeon? I checked RMS, and wondered if they still are despite the descriptions.

Title: Re: Carding question.
Post by: Ren Ren on November 17, 2010, 02:12:51 am

Yes, they're considered as miniboss. Really really need RSX fire for thor /rice