About Elemental Fists (Razerman also come in please)

[Guardian Lord]

given that my champ has 99 str

I was wondering if I should get ++ VVS (Elemental) Fists

my other weapon is a +10 DSSB mace

and I was thinking till I get a SSTT waghnak I would try Elementals

do you think I should or just stay DSSB?

side note: Razerman can I trade in my weapons made by you and zeny for over upped ones if so how much... I have fire and Ice Damascus and Fire fist

and if the decision is for elementals how much for over upped fists... I think Fire, Ice and earth and what else?

Side side note: PC on +10 Waghnak [4] and is anyone selling?

[Mirandu]

Elemental fists for...?

- Asura? Nah, elements do not work through Asura, so you won't get any damage increase.
- FO? Yeah, useful against different kinds of enemies! And they're cheaper than a DSSB.
- Occult? Like Asura, Occult is always neutral (there might be a small effect though the garment's element, but I don't really know how that works/seems to be a bug @.@)
- Combo? Yeah, I've every kind of elemental fist, and they're very useful for combos.

[Guardian Lord]

Elemental fists for...?

- Asura? Nah, elements do not work through Asura, so you won't get any damage increase.
- FO? Yeah, useful against different kinds of enemies! And they're cheaper than a DSSB.
- Occult? Like Asura, Occult is always neutral (there might be a small effect though the garment's element, but I don't really know how that works/seems to be a bug @.@)
- Combo? Yeah, I've every kind of elemental fist, and they're very useful for combos.

FO and Occult yes...  and I only use DSSB cause I already have one for my BS

I was just wondering if Elementals will do more damage if Over upped and with the Iron Fist skill

[Gnemo]

Waghnak?
What's wrong with a +10 TTHH / +10 HHHSw mace? I have never heard of +10 TTSS Waghnak as a staple weapon...

[Ruru]

Mace is better because it doesn't break.
If you really want a good weapon a +7 VVS Elemental Swordmace is the sex.
Fire, Wind, and maybe Water. No need for Earth imo =x

[Guardian Lord]

Waghnak?
What's wrong with a +10 TTHH / +10 HHHSw mace? I have never heard of +10 TTSS Waghnak as a staple weapon...

Mace is better because it doesn't break.
If you really want a good weapon a +7 VVS Elemental Swordmace is the sex.
Fire, Wind, and maybe Water. No need for Earth imo =x

Waghnak because of the + atk that Iron Hand gives for using a fist type weapon.. therby giving a + 10 Whagnak more damage than a + 10 Mace with the same cards...
and though Mace's are more versitile I just think Champs should have fists.

and won't weapon breakers also break maces??  and this is primarrily for PvM not PVP. FO and Ocult and Asura.

[Saitou]

Maces are unbreakable

[Guardian Lord]

Waghnak?
What's wrong with a +10 TTHH / +10 HHHSw mace? I have never heard of +10 TTSS Waghnak as a staple weapon...

this was for PvM in general not PvP for PvP yes I would say TTHH

[LostLimit]

A mace is a lot easier to sell llater on than a waghnak.

Elemental fists is only useful for FO and combo. Will not help with Occult or Asura. Iron hand skill works with fists weapon and if your elemental fists are made by a ranked WS, you'll get some bonus damage that non-ranked fists don't give you.

[Razer]

Actually Fists vs Stunners (I dont see a valid reason why even a champ should waste time on a swordmace unless you share a VVS earth Swoedmace between a WS and a Champ thats all ok)

Fists :
Pros : Faster Aspd, Less delay
 Excellent choices in pvm where speed of killing is a must
Cheaper . +0 ones are like 700k from me
You can afford to over refine one upto +10 without sweating much

Cons : They break

Stunners:
Pros :
More damage
Dont break
10% stun chance

Cons:
Very expensive to make , a VVS Elem stunner costs as much as a +7 VVS fist thereby losing the damage advantage. True enough youcan have unlimited Oris for trying +10 Fists but remember Stunners require 120 steel (gasp) and Orc hero emblem aside from hammers, Stones and crumbs. The combined article cost to try forging becomes ~500k. And you dont know how many Stunners the poor forger will break before he gets a success.
 
Slower Aspd. Sucks at combos.

@Raru : Earth is important , since many players nowdays tend to use Wind Sasquatch to counter champs.

@Guardian Lord: Man I dont buy back my stuff unless I go overboard on an over refine bid but since you have possession of 3 weapons made by me. That entitles you to slightly cheaper prices then what I normally vend them at or announce their prices on forums at.

[Guardian Lord]

Actually Fists vs Stunners (I dont see a valid reason why even a champ should waste time on a swordmace unless you share a VVS earth Swoedmace between a WS and a Champ thats all ok)

Fists :
Pros : Faster Aspd, Less delay
 Excellent choices in pvm where speed of killing is a must
Cheaper . +0 ones are like 700k from me
You can afford to over refine one upto +10 without sweating much

Cons : They break

Stunners:
Pros :
More damage
Dont break
10% stun chance

Cons:
Very expensive to make , a VVS Elem stunner costs as much as a +7 VVS fist thereby losing the damage advantage. True enough youcan have unlimited Oris for trying +10 Fists but remember Stunners require 120 steel (gasp) and Orc hero emblem aside from hammers, Stones and crumbs. The combined article cost to try forging becomes ~500k. And you dont know how many Stunners the poor forger will break before he gets a success.
 
Slower Aspd. Sucks at combos.

@Raru : Earth is important , since many players nowdays tend to use Wind Sasquatch to counter champs.

@Guardian Lord: Man I dont buy back my stuff unless I go overboard on an over refine bid but since you have possession of 3 weapons made by me. That entitles you to slightly cheaper prices then what I normally vend them at or announce their prices on forums at.

Razerman> well more like I was gonna give them back for you to over-up but either way can PM price for over-upped Elemental fists and Damascus...

Others> I don't sell my weapons  and I try to have a specific weapons/gears based on the trans char I'm leveling. In this case my newest  Champ

[Razer]

+7 Damascus : 4.5M
+7 Fist : 2.5M

In my experience it requires 3 of an item to get atleast one +7 80% of the times. Of course there is a chance that all 3 may reach +7 and all three may break.

[Guardian Lord]

+7 Damascus : 4.5M
+7 Fist : 2.5M

In my experience it requires 3 of an item to get atleast one +7 80% of the times. Of course there is a chance that all 3 may reach +7 and all three may break.

Guess I'll start saving up for the fists first... soo that will be Fire, ice, earth, water??