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The 'Other' Section => AnesisRO Archive => Archive => General Questions => Topic started by: SinCityOrk on May 20, 2008, 03:23:15 pm

Title: Niff Mace
Post by: SinCityOrk on May 20, 2008, 03:23:15 pm

So I've got all my niff gear for a BS except the mace, and I was wondering which would be better:

The standard DBSS mace, a DBTT (I doubt because your atk won't ever get to 325 with a mace) or a DBStroufStrouf (Strouf is 20% + against Demon) or any combination of these?  Such as a DBSStrouf.

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: ~Axle~ on May 20, 2008, 03:26:25 pm

DBTT is a horrid idea, since % value does not stack with the spash effect from bapho.

+10 DBS Chain is the more economic - and best overall for attack I believe.
Close second is a +10 DBSS Mace.

Strouf isn't too bad, But you'd only be dealing more damage to the demons, and not the undead's (Only 2/4 monsters I believe. )
Also - the % value again.

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: balam on May 20, 2008, 03:27:21 pm

TT doesnt splash, if anything youll need to kill dullahans faster and those arent demon


Edit:
DBSS mace is better than the chain >.> chain hits varies a lot

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Moon Drifter on May 20, 2008, 11:31:16 pm

Quote from: balam on May 20, 2008, 03:27:21 pm

TT doesnt splash, if anything youll need to kill dullahans faster and those arent demon


Edit:
DBSS mace is better than the chain >.> chain hits varies a lot

what do u mean chain hits varies a lot? Anyways if its dmg u want a +8/9 DB two handed axe outdmges them both.

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Sapphirion on May 21, 2008, 04:28:22 am

yeah but only that u'll lose major defense :P

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Varis on May 21, 2008, 05:05:48 am

I wish I had the old thread of the animaRO forums saved where I went in and broke down exactly how much damage each of the "top choice" weapons would do against each type of monster in Skellington.

Overall winner in damage was indeed the +10 Two-Handed Axe[2], but you lose your ability to use a shield, so IMO it's not worth it. However, it is an option. I don't remember if it still was better at +9.

For one-handed weapons, the +10 Axe[4] is actually superior by a marginal amount over the competition. The +10 Chain[3] is actually worse than the +10 Mace[4]. At a maximum damage hit, the Chain has a total of +50 from upgrades, compared to the mace's +29 maximum, and there is a 47 base ATK difference between the two, netting a total difference, at a maximum, of (47+21) 68, which is only 3 points higher than the damage bonus the mace would get from having a 2nd Samurai card. Considering there is a random chance of getting anywhere from +1 to +20 damage from the Chain on any given hit, the maximum potential of the Chain[3] over the Mace[4] simply isn't consistent enough. It is cheaper, though.

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Razer on May 21, 2008, 05:22:34 am

Isnt there a random bonus on +10 Chain[3] as its level 2 ?
As for damage variations - thet can be countered with Power Maximize.


The best weapon hands down is the outcast DSB Mjolnir /heh

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Zeta on May 21, 2008, 05:24:54 am

Problems with the MJolnir is the wind property.
Once fire endow runs out, you have a mob of disguises after you.

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Varis on May 21, 2008, 05:25:45 am

+10 Mace gets +20 damage from the Upgrade Bonus, and +1-9 from the Upgrade Damage.

+10 Chain gets +30 damage from the Upgrade Bonus, and +1-20 from the Upgrade Damage.

Good point about skill, though.

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Moon Drifter on May 21, 2008, 06:04:00 am

the reason why people say that +10 chain does more dmg is because using power maximize cancels that random 1-20

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Aozora on May 21, 2008, 10:13:57 am

Quote from: !ns4n3 on May 21, 2008, 05:24:54 am

Problems with the MJolnir is the wind property.
Once fire endow runs out, you have a mob of disguises after you.

Which is when you use this handy item called Flywing, or a butterfly wing to get back to your Endow slave :>

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Ultra Violence on May 21, 2008, 11:21:16 am

+10 DBSS axe is what I use.

Tested all alot of weapons of friends before I bought this one.

It is the best but not by far. (Not including DBS Mjol with an endow.)

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: SinCityOrk on May 21, 2008, 11:21:31 am

And so the general consensus is that I should stick with the Sam cards.  And you guys still can't agree on either mace or chain or even axe.

When you all decide, I'll come back.

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: balam on May 21, 2008, 02:38:12 pm

mace can be used by more classes...axe is buffed on bios (DBSS will be slow without BS party buffs tho?

just buy one mace already made, are getting cheaper anyway

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: SinCityOrk on May 21, 2008, 02:40:01 pm

Good to know.  On that topic of buying one:  S>Ads, 800k each

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Varis on May 21, 2008, 02:41:50 pm

The versatility argument kinda goes out the window when referring to DBSS weapons since that's a card set-up that's really only good for smiths. Everyone else would need two dopps to reach 190 aspd.

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: SinCityOrk on May 21, 2008, 02:42:28 pm

Yar, AR FTW.  Anyways, Varis, wanna buy some ads?

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: VanDikov on May 21, 2008, 02:45:15 pm

The damage differential given by a Mjolnir doesn't look like it fits the proper description though.

I mean, it gives nearly 4 times (3.3 something) the damage of my DBS chain, yet damage reflected upon the creatures isn't anywhere close to that multiplying figure.

I'd like someone to explain this to me, how a 250 ATK Mjolnir doesn't do that much more then an 87 ATK chain.

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Varis on May 21, 2008, 02:47:52 pm

Because you haven't factored in the monster's defenses, among lots of other things.

http://rodatazone.simgaming.net/mechanics/attacks.php

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: SinCityOrk on May 21, 2008, 02:49:47 pm

Varis, don't hurt heads anymore.  Also, buy ads.

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Varis on May 21, 2008, 02:51:08 pm

How many ads are you selling, and how much per $1?

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: SinCityOrk on May 21, 2008, 02:51:48 pm

34, 800k per.

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Varis on May 21, 2008, 03:00:28 pm

I'll buy 11 of them at that price.

Where should I meet you?

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: VanDikov on May 21, 2008, 03:04:13 pm

Actually I looked at that link and my head hurt already.

I was hoping a man of your talents can provide a more simplified or dumbed down version of why Mjolnir's damage output doesn't tally with it's attack strength. Or at least, the single biggest reason if there are too many.

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Varis on May 21, 2008, 03:08:34 pm

Because ATK isn't a percentage. It's basically an exact damage number. If a monster has 0 defense of any kind, then 250 ATK would = 250 damage.

However, multiple kinds of defense get applied to it. VIT DEF lowers the damage by a specific amount (25 VIT DEF = 25 damage reduction). Other types (Armor DEF, for example), reduce the damage by a percentage (25% damage reduction would reduce that 250 by 62.5).

Also, there are abilities that increase your damage by a percentage (turtle general, for example) and by other specific amounts (samurai for example).

In order to calculate the exact percentage increase in damage output of going from a mace or a chain or an axe up to a Mjolnir, you would have to take all of the above into account.

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: SinCityOrk on May 21, 2008, 03:13:15 pm

Quote from: Varis on May 21, 2008, 03:00:28 pm

I'll buy 11 of them at that price.

Where should I meet you?

Gonryun, right before WoE.

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Varis on May 21, 2008, 03:20:46 pm

I'm in Gonryun now, on my smith, Picus, by the statue near the kafra.

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: VanDikov on May 21, 2008, 03:29:05 pm

Thanks.

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Aronar on May 21, 2008, 10:06:31 pm

Quote from: balam on May 20, 2008, 03:27:21 pm

TT doesnt splash, if anything youll need to kill dullahans faster and those arent demon


Edit:
DBSS mace is better than the chain >.> chain hits varies a lot

Yep this is the exact correct answer.~

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Razer on May 22, 2008, 01:35:49 am

A General thing all Smiths should know.

Axes/Hammer Pros :
More attack+More ASPD

Cons:
Damage variation Needs constant spam of Power Maximize.

Maces are weaker but dont need power maximize they seem to have very less damage variations.

As per DSB Mjolnir goes , Its is a slightly stronger Niff weapon but a wickedly strong PVM weapon otherwise. Imagine mobbing in places like Geffen 4 , Geffenias, Soloing HW MVP. Of course I did not make with niff in mind. That place looks more populated then the heaviest filled public places here. I bought it primarily for places like Geffen 4/Hidden Temple 2/Magma dungeon 2/Dragon lakes lvl 1/Lighthalzen 2 Mobbing/soloing

The ranged reduction is helpful as well. As well as with an endow you have haccess to 2 Elements . Throw tomahawk is always wind property.

Also the +40 dex is useful in forging :angel:

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Sapphirion on May 22, 2008, 11:48:31 am

the difference of attack between a +10DBS chain and a +10DBSS mace is only 5 otherwise both r precisely the same thing a DBS chain would be best to buy for u [its 55m 10m less than dbss and 10m is really not worth 5 attack :P]

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: SinCityOrk on May 22, 2008, 11:54:16 am

Wait, are you saying that saving 10mil zeny is not worth an extra 5 atk?  Cause that's crazy.  Saving any amount of zeny is worth it.

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Varis on May 22, 2008, 10:10:35 pm

Ummm... He's saying that it's not worth spending 10mil just for a 5 point increase in damage...

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: balam on May 22, 2008, 11:26:57 pm

with dbs chain youll be using maximize power to get the same constant damage and use GJ or stay with the damage variations and use none GJ

dbss mace you just dont need GJ unless you over spam skills

none GJ if you got kahos and maybe 15-20 base int


Edit:
so yeah you save a lot using a chain and is almost the same

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Razer on May 23, 2008, 12:00:10 am

If you have a total dex of 50 (with kahos+celebs +w/e) you wont require to ude perfection as well. I get top end damage in Niff with DSB Mjol w/o Maximize. Chain belongs to maces I think - I suppose nominal dex saves you from the job of Power MAximize anyway. I would highly recommend not to use axes as well. I do believe they have a size penalty and thats basically why you use Weapon Perfection with it as well. Maces hit 100% on everything. Mjolnir qualifies as a mace by its visible attributes . Its supposed to be a hammer but its a mace class.

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: balam on May 23, 2008, 12:07:16 am

you wont really use dex for niff =/ would be a waste of stats, same goes for using celebs there
also i was talking about maximize power which drain the sp faster than it recovers, i always keep weapon perfection up using mace, i think only increases damage on little size monsters but meh or at least thats what i think /swt2

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Varis on May 23, 2008, 12:08:33 am

Quote from: Razerman on May 23, 2008, 12:00:10 am

Maces hit 100% on everything.

Maces hit 100% on medium and large. They hit 75% on small.

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: balam on May 23, 2008, 12:13:06 am

lol just checked too and you shouldn't be up to changing mjoll to axe for size modifiers unless you wanna spam weapon perfection always in woe
one more buff to dispell from WS's =P

axe does 50% on small, 75% medium, 100% large

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Razer on May 23, 2008, 12:34:59 am

Quote from: Varis on May 23, 2008, 12:08:33 am

Quote from: Razerman on May 23, 2008, 12:00:10 am

Maces hit 100% on everything.

Maces hit 100% on medium and large. They hit 75% on small.

I see, didnt know , explains the low damage on misstress :o

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Varis on May 23, 2008, 01:01:26 am

Yeah, axes are worse than maces for weapon modifiers. I still want Mjolnir changed to be the same class as a Hamer. Either that, or change Hammers to be in the Mace category rather than the Axe category. I don't base my opinion on numbers, though. I base it on the fact that the SQI is named after Thor's hammer so it should be a hammer in the game. As far as I'm concerned, that's the end of the story. *shrug*

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Razer on May 23, 2008, 01:28:12 am

I doubt if its possible to change Hammer sprites into mace class from axe in Aegis. As far as axes go Djinn qualifies as an Axe so Axe is used - they cant have 2 Axe class SQIS I suppose judging that they make one of each class as a SQI.

Mjol Sprite is horrible but I wont sacrifice the damage from sprite Change :(

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: SinCityOrk on May 23, 2008, 02:08:44 pm

It's okay, I use Power maximize when i niff anyways, and I have about a twenty-twenty five Int to counter that.  My dex is low (only 20) and everything else is split between Vit and Str (with a slight bonus to Str). 

I'm also poor, so I don't have all the nice gears yet, such as Celebs, so those don't matter to me.  It's all good for me now, because I can borrow a DBSS mace until I have enough money to buy my own (or that one)

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: SolBad-Kid on May 24, 2008, 08:05:36 am

isn't DBSS mace and DBS Mjol the best thing. Axes two slots i think so no tirfing/other shields. And mace cant break from the ws move max overthrust.

Title: Re: Niff Mace
Post by: Varis on May 24, 2008, 01:30:28 pm

The 4-slotted Axe is 1-handed. Axes are also unbreakable, just like maces.