Old aRO Forums

AnesisRO => AnesisRO TV => Topic started by: Linmakana on February 06, 2011, 01:42:57 am

Title: ITT: Discuss Video Encoding/Codecs
Post by: Linmakana on February 06, 2011, 01:42:57 am

As most of us here know, encoding the video is one of the most important steps in post-processing.

Which codec do you use to encode with? Software?

I'm currently using FFDShow's Xvid and MPEG-4 codec, although I've heard H.264 is pretty good.
I've never really gotten better results from using H.264, is it just my settings?

Title: Re: ITT: Discuss Video Encoding/Codecs
Post by: InterSpectra on February 06, 2011, 02:26:32 am

These are what I typically use:


aRO recorded with Fraps (1280x720 @ 30 FPS)
Editted with Adobe Premiere Pro CS4 (1280x720 @ 30 FPS)
Video Codec: H.264 AVC Main Concept; Profile 4.1 High @ 9 Mbps (12 max) VBR 2-Pass
Audio Codec: AAC 44.1 KHz @ 320 Kbps Stereo

That's if I have convenient access to my university's internet, otherwise I'll encode at a lower bitrate.
I've tried Xvid uneditted hypercam'ed files uploaded to Youtube, and they turn out pretty well at Target Quantizer = 4.00 (which still makes a pretty big file, but nothing compared to Fraps). Only problem Premiere Pro does not like Xvid's temporal compression so I can't edit in Premiere Pro unless I use an intermediate step to transcode it into something compatible.

I don't think I used Premiere Pro to encode to Xvid however, so I can't compare which is better. I could make a new video and try encoding both in H.264 + Xvid, upload both and see if Youtube quality is the same or not.

If the bitrate is high enough Youtube will retain much of the quality at 720p regardless if it's Xvid or MPEG-4 or H.264/3, but on limited bandwidth, personally I'd go with H.264 @ VBR 2-Pass.

There is a free H.264 Codec (known as x.264) you can use, which can be found here: http://sites.google.com/site/gabextreme/x264vfwunited (You'd want kMod's Video for Windows (VFW) version)
I tried using it in Hypercam as an alternative to Xvid (as I said Premiere Pro doesn't support it), but unfortunately my pc isn't fast enough to encode H.264 realtime :<

Xvid isn't bad in the slightest, there's a reason why anime fansub groups use Xvid for its 480p transcodes, but they typically use MPEG-4/H.264 for their 720p encodes. At least Xvid is a million times better than Microsoft MPEG-4 Video Codec V1/2/3, which is what I originally used. Now that was terribad.

-Edit-

Okay I tried to make some example Xvid vs H.264 Youtube, but my Xvid render completely failed. Either Premiere Pro really hates Xvid, or my encode settings were whack and Youtube therefore garbled it up (I couldn't watch the Xvid render file in VLC, sound was good but video came up blank; Winamp was able to play the Xvid file fine though). I'll try to adjust my Xvid render settings in Premiere Pro somehow ???

AnimusRO Mobbing and Claymore Traps (H.264) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJjnclBMO-w)

AnimusRO Mobbing and Claymore Traps (Xvid) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so8NjX47FuA)

Title: Re: ITT: Discuss Video Encoding/Codecs
Post by: Linmakana on February 06, 2011, 09:37:49 pm

Okay, I'll see what I can do with H.264/x264
My 50-second videos are getting a total filesize of 100+MB with MPEG-4, so I really want to get them smaller.

I'm using VirtualDub because I'm too cheap for Premiere Pro/Sony Vegas. I probably would torrent Premier Pro, but my friend probably wouldn't approve of that. (Don't tell him about the Fraps x_x)

Okay, so I got the x264vfw you linked to. What settings would I be aiming for? I got the 4.1 High Profile down, but I'm not sure how to get VBR 2-pass.

(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/1130/x264settings.png)

Title: Re: ITT: Discuss Video Encoding/Codecs
Post by: InterSpectra on February 07, 2011, 01:05:42 am

Premiere Pro (and Sony Vegas I imagine) makes it easier to do 2 (multi) passes, because when I chose the Main Concept H.264, it automatically does both passes one after another for you when you set for 2-pass.

When I tried the open source x.264 on Premiere Pro (which screwed up like Xvid by the way, I think Adobe doesn't like non-official third party stuff), first I need to set "Multi-pass - 1st Pass". Let the render do its thing. After it's done, the stat file will remain in whatever directory you chose (or defaults to the one you see). Then you have to choose to render *AGAIN*, but this time choosing Multi-pass Nth pass. Theoretically you can do it over and over at this stage but most just do the 2nd pass and call it quits. The program will use the stats file generated by the first pass to allocate as efficiently the limitation you chose at areas in the video which require more/less bits. Kind of a hassle but maximizes quality in constrained bitrates.

Youtube's 720p videos has an average of 3-3.5 Mbps, so I wouldn't recommend rendering your own files lower than 3 Mbps (otherwise Youtube's video filesize would be larger than yours!).

Title: Re: ITT: Discuss Video Encoding/Codecs
Post by: Linmakana on February 07, 2011, 01:16:43 am

What would 3-3.5 Mbps be in Kbits? I'm assuming that's what the Target Bitrate (kbit/s) slider is for.

Also, do I need to change anything in the Output area?

Title: Re: ITT: Discuss Video Encoding/Codecs
Post by: InterSpectra on February 07, 2011, 01:36:39 am

1 Mbps ~= 1000 Kbps
1.5 Mbps ~= 1500 Kbps

I say approximately because I don't know if in terms of bitrates do they follow the 2^n  or 10^n system \o.o/

As to your second question, hold on let me download the latest version, my x264 build isn't the newest one so it looks like this:

(http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5689/x264configmenu18dec2010.jpg)

Okay, I updated, and it still looks like that, except the build date changed.

I've been using kMod's, so the only reason I can think of for the discrepancy is that you're using the other unmodified build? \o.o/

So the only thing I can suggest now is to try the option, if Output setting actually overrides VirtuaDub's Save as AVi.. destination, or does something entirely different.

Title: Re: ITT: Discuss Video Encoding/Codecs
Post by: Linmakana on February 07, 2011, 01:50:19 am

Oh, I think I installed the "BugMaster" version. Where do I get the kMod version? I'm using the link (http://sites.google.com/site/gabextreme/x264vfwunited) you provided.
Wait, I think I got it. It's this one right? http://komisar.gin.by/

EDIT: Okay, yeah I got the one you have. Running the 1st pass and then the Nth pass.
Is 3500 kbit/s good? Also, which FourCC should I be using? And now Profile selection is gone.

Title: Re: ITT: Discuss Video Encoding/Codecs
Post by: InterSpectra on February 07, 2011, 02:17:02 am

Yeah, the quality should still be better than what you'd see after Youtube processes the hell out of it.

A lot of the settings I don't know anything about actually, like the FourCC so I kept them at default. I did however change the number of threads under Rate control & other because my cpu has 4 single threaded cores).

Since you're using VirtualDub, you may want to test that option right under FourCC. Also if you prefer the BugMaster version go for it; until I find out why Adobe Premiere Pro screws up the render while using Xvid or x264 I'm going to stick with the built-in H264 that program has.

I will at least try out VirtualDub rendering x264 on one of my Fraps right now just to check.

Title: Re: ITT: Discuss Video Encoding/Codecs
Post by: Linmakana on February 07, 2011, 02:22:02 am

Oh wow. H.264/x264 is great.

Raw Fraps video = 1.24 GB
Encoded under MPEG-4 = 130 MB
Encoded under H.264/x264 = 26.2 MB

And the quality is almost identical to the original Fraps file.
I love you InterSpectra. I really do.

Also, what happens when you go to a higher AVC level? kMod can go up to 5.1, been using 4.1 as you recommended.

Title: Re: ITT: Discuss Video Encoding/Codecs
Post by: InterSpectra on February 07, 2011, 02:26:04 am

That's great, less youtube uploading time!

I'm currently finishing up a 1st pass in VirtualDub with x264 to see how it goes as well. Just hope I don't forget to re-render under multi-pass once it's finished lol.

-Edit-

When I hover over the option under Adobe Premiere Pro, it says "Constrains the parameters of the encode", at lower numbers the default resolution was lower. I just stuck with 4.1 because with Premiere Pro, something higher like 4.2 had its default resolution at 1920x1080. Assuming the AVC profiles are universally used, then 4.1 may be best for 720p videos? Then again it may not matter at all and is just a guideline.

As seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC#Levels

Yes, I have no damn clue about the numbers in context, but the higher the number in each section the more it'll take to decode the video it seems.

-Edit #2-

Yep x264 looks good, visually as expected like h264 no surprise there, here's my test file stats:

Video Length: 3 minutes 23 seconds
Original Fraps Filesize: 3.90 GB
x264 render file @ 3000 Kbps Filesize: 80.6 MB
(Audio Compression was MP3 @ 320 Kbps so that's like 8 MB at most)

Title: Re: ITT: Discuss Video Encoding/Codecs
Post by: Linmakana on February 07, 2011, 02:31:26 am

I've already uploaded the x264 video onto YT, checking the quality after YT transcodes it.

EDIT: Finished. The upload took only 5 minutes compared to the 45 minutes original encode.
There is absolutely no quality loss! Thank you so much, InterSpectra. I'll never forget this.

Going to update the guide now!

Maaaan, I really want to reupload my old videos using x264 (since my old encoding method was crap quality even under 720p) but then I'll lose all my viewcounts and stuff ;~;

Title: Re: ITT: Discuss Video Encoding/Codecs
Post by: InterSpectra on February 07, 2011, 02:51:48 am

You could Unlist the original video as you put up a new better quality one, so at least you'll keep the total viewcount under your Channel stats!

You're welcome too, glad I could help out!

Now as for actual video editting, I need help there. Premiere Pro is a bitch and the problem with having lots of options is trying to find out where everything is, what it's called, or how to use it.

I JUST LEARNED HOW TO SPLIT A VIDEO FILE LIKE A WEEK AGO. YOU KNOW THE THING TO CUT A VIDEO CLIP IN HALF SO YOU CAN EDIT IT EASIER? THEY CALL IT "RAZER" AND THEY PUT IT UNDER THE SEQUENCE OPTIONS, BUT A SEQUENCE IS THE ENTIRE THING YOU'RE EDITTING NOT THE SPECIFIC VIDEO CLIP. SO WHY DID THEY NOT PUT IT UNDER THE "CLIP" OPTIONS?! FFFUUUU---

Title: Re: ITT: Discuss Video Encoding/Codecs
Post by: Linmakana on February 07, 2011, 01:49:25 pm

Hmm, I just might do that. I have all the original Frap AVIs on my External HDD.

I've used Premier Pro like, once at the local university's media lab. I was totally confused as well.
I like VirtualDub for it's simplicity, but it's lacking in titles, transitions, effects, etc.

Has a bunch of plugins though.